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s/vAngel · 11-09-2014, 08:46

Is there any legitimate excuse for an FWC boat to operate at night in a completely blacked out mode, not just occasionally, but ALL THE TIME in Key West Harbor?
I've been asking around and searching for laws or legal reasons: I.e., apprehending a known criminal. However, these cop boats in this area operate at night, unlit, all the time. And all I've seen them do is sneak up on unsuspecting dinghies and fishing boats. Unlit, they STALK civilian boats (illegal in Florida unless officer is actually snagging an identified criminal) all the time.
This black out tactic almost got a fishing boat's crew killed- they were operating legally, brightly lit, at night and were on plane down a wide open channel. They nearly hit the unseen cop boat!
I'm not a lawyer and am seeking some straight answers. So far, I haven't gotten any. Are there any LEOs on this site, what's your views?
Should I keep filming with my infrared cameras? (Withou t interfering of course!) Do the local boaters here just continue to allow their rights to be infringed? It's just so irksome to sit back and witness this nonstop and it's only getting worse. What if a fishing boat does smash into an unlit cop boat? Who's going to be blamed- the civilians most likely.

ianjoub · 11-09-2014, 09:10

You are on to the right answer. Get a LARGE boat and hit them 'by accident' at top speed.

onestepcsy37 · 11-09-2014, 10:13

I was in key west back in the 80's when the local water nazis used to harass the liveaboards. One tactic was for them to hang around waiting for a liveaboard to row to the simonton street beach. Halfway in they would race up to the dink at high speed and wake the dinghy so badly some would turn over. Supposedly they were coming to check for life jackets. I heard, but dont know personally, that a stop was put to that when one liveaboard drowned.

sailorboy1 · 11-09-2014, 10:52

Why would the FWC running around at night without nav lights be any more legal than a highway patrol car driving on the highway at night with the cars lights off?

maytrix · 11-09-2014, 11:21

Share the videos - if nothing else, maybe it will draw some attention to the issue.

**a64pilot** · 11-09-2014, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Why would the FWC running around at night without nav lights be any more legal than a highway patrol car driving on the highway at night with the cars lights off?

Or speeding, not that they would ever do that

It's quite difficult to get permission to fly a military aircraft at night lights off for training, NOTAMS issued, trail aircraft in formation with lights on etc.
I bet there isn't any allowance for an LEO in a boat to operate lights out.

onestepcsy37 · 11-09-2014, 11:57

A couple of years ago we were doing the fort lauderdale to key west race. In the middle of a very dark night, 20 miles from key west sea buoy, a very bright searchlight was suddenly shone at us from seaward. The captain got his spotlight and pointed it back at the searchlight. It was a "cigarette" style speedboat, painted all black. He turned off his light and then we turned off ours and went back to race mode. We later learned that it was probably a DEA boat.

pete33458 · 11-09-2014, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I bet there isn't any allowance for an LEO in a boat to operate lights out.

They do it nonetheless. In my view, it all started with DHS (important note: I am NOT including the USCG here, although they are part of DHS. USCG are heroes as far as I am concerned). What a bunch of yahoos. I posted a story a few years ago about being surprised by a blacked out (and black) DHS boat and crew (dressed in black) while in a sailboat, under sail, about 14nm off of Ft Lauderdale, heading away from the US. I won't go into the details again, but they were real pricks. With local law enforcement now being given access to, if not being encouraged to access, surplus military equipment, it was only a matter of time before the locals thought it was too cool to leave it for just the feds. My guess is that there is some legality to operating without lights under certain circumstances for military and law enforcement, and probably even justification in some limited circumstances. But it wouldn't include a sailboat under sail heading away from the US with a family on board, and I would think it certainly doesn't include just being a bad ass because you can.

On the other hand, you have to be really, really, REALLY committed to the cause if you want to fight this kind of stupidity. They hold all the cards. Nothing new about tyranny.

Pete

bletso · 11-09-2014, 13:52

They do it because they can with immunity. They can always come up with an excuse post event. Basically they are immature people who just haven't grown up yet, (No matter they years on the planet.)

IdoraKeeper · 11-09-2014, 14:56

We have a giant budget for drug enforcement. Tax and legalize the stuff, let FBI and DoD deal with the left over thugs.I have seen the same antics in the PNW. Its a left over, utterly nonsense use of tax dollars. It will be hard to dismantle but could be shut down by (Con)gress but that would be (Pro)gress. Imagine that.

Jd1 · 11-09-2014, 16:34

I hope I am not giving them new ideas but this is what is happening on the roads:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/ameri...oney-1.2760736

DeborahLee · 11-09-2014, 17:07

How do you know who they are? Report them as a suspicious boat to the CG and let them intercept them. Could be terrorist or Haitians or Cubans trying to get into the country. Make the call on VHF and give their position so the drug runners know where they are then maybe they will turn on their lights and act like any good boater.

clownfishsydney · 11-09-2014, 18:10

For those of who do not know, what is FWC? I gather F = Florida, but what is the rest of it?

dohenyboy · 11-09-2014, 18:42

Its a hazard to navigation. When you see it, get on channel 16 and warn everyone about the apparently intoxicated boater who forgot to turn on his navigation lights. Maybe they are pirates or thieves. You don't KNOW who it is. Just make people aware of the danger. And if you think you saw them throw a corpse over the transom better report that too!
Maybe you can start a nightly discussion group to speculate who it is and the diminutive size of their . Of course not on channel 16.