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Old 13-09-2014, 08:07   #46
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Rather than post here on CF and generate a lot of discussion but not accomplish much, why wouldn't you file a complaint directly with the FWC and let them know of your concerns. You can email the Commissioners directly, Contact Commissioners , or call the regional offices...

305-956-2500
Regional Office
3200 NE 151 Street
Miami, FL 33181

Marathon Field Office
2796 Overseas Highway #100
Marathon, FL 33050



Then come back here and let us know what their response was. Chuck
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Old 13-09-2014, 09:01   #47
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I've posted this before, but does the FWC really have any real need for this?
http://www.derecktor.com/2010/08/10/...o-the-fwc-810/
Well, yes. They enforce fishery laws and as the link says, the boat is to be used hundreds of miles offshore.

Later,
Dan
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Old 13-09-2014, 10:28   #48
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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Originally Posted by dannc View Post
Well, yes. They enforce fishery laws and as the link says, the boat is to be used hundreds of miles offshore.

Later,
Dan
LMAO. How many miles offshore does the state of Florida fishery jurisdiction extend? Hundreds? I don't think so.
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Old 13-09-2014, 22:35   #49
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Mike, the FWC assists the Department of Homeland Security in remote areas of the state as well as conducting search and rescue missions. They also enforce the fishing regulations and management areas designated by the various regional Management Councils which I believe extend to 200 miles offshore.
They do have a large and varied presence on the water.
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Old 14-09-2014, 10:25   #50
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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Mike, the FWC assists the Department of Homeland Security in remote areas of the state as well as conducting search and rescue missions. They also enforce the fishing regulations and management areas designated by the various regional Management Councils which I believe extend to 200 miles offshore.
They do have a large and varied presence on the water.
And to think they just used to be the local game wardens. So now my federal tax dollars are paying for federal offshore fishing law enforcement and my state tax dollars are paying for federal offshore fishing law enforcement.

Wonder where else I pay twice for the same service? Oh yeah, didn't congressman Rick Santorum want us to pay twice for the weather report?
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Old 14-09-2014, 12:46   #51
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

"Assisting" DHS?

Wait a minute, we're all allowed and encouraged to do that. Nothing special there.

FWC officers are, as best I can tell, peace officers and administrative agents, as empowered the by the Florida Legislature under the Florida Statues or other written code. No more, no less.

With no other official legal role or duties, unless the Florida Legislature specifially authorized them.

It would be most unusual for any government employee to have both state and federal powers, especially since those may often conflict, and not just in budgets.

That kind of "dual service" is pretty much unheard of, except in the National Guard program, which required legislation on both the federal and state sides. And even more special legislation in Florida, which was and is the only state participating without a state militia.
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Old 14-09-2014, 13:17   #52
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Wait a minute! Florida doesn't have a militia? Does that mean that Florida residents do not have "the right to keep and bear arms" under the 2nd amendment? Oh crap, I think I just started another gun thread!
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Old 14-09-2014, 14:18   #53
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

No, it isn't a gun thread.
Yes, Florida has the distinction of being the only state without a state militia, however, US citizens who happen to be in Florida, resident or otherwise, may still be under obligation to the federal militia. In every other state, citizens are subject to both federal and state mandatory military service of some kind although (to come back to FWC) peace officers are often exempted as persons engaged in otherwise "necessary" occupations.
Given the number of embarrassing incidents where various State Militia have been deployed domestically...Florida is probably better off without one. After taking over 5000 casualties at Gettsyburg, units of the NYS Militia were transported to NYC to put down draft riots. And, to literally evict the mayor and shut down the police department in favor of a less corrupt one, not run by Tammany Hall. More recently, I think it was California-vs-Nevada on opposite sides of a water distribution canal in the 20th century. Yes, they literally were about to have a water war with live ammunition, although that got resolved without shooting.
There are reasons why no one in the governments wants to hear the "M" word. Florida? Perhaps because it came from Spain, never had that tradition. (Although both California and Texas did and do.)
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Old 14-09-2014, 14:52   #54
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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LMAO. How many miles offshore does the state of Florida fishery jurisdiction extend? Hundreds? I don't think so.
Federal limit in the Gulf is 200 miles. The link said they boat would be used out to 200 miles so it would seem the FWC would be enforcing Federal law. Nothing new there.

Its not like the boat in question was a Go Fast boat that the GFC/FWC used to have and I assume they still have in their inventory. The FWC is a state wide law enforcement agency whose focus is on game, fishing and boating related laws. The FWC was created from the merger of the FLA Marine Patrol and the GFC a few decades ago. The Marine Patrol handled fishery regulations/laws in sea water as well as boating laws and going after drug runners.

Later,
Dan
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Old 14-09-2014, 18:44   #55
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Dan, what link? OOControl's link mentions nothing that I can see about FWC going outside of Florida's own waters (which would end 3 miles offshore) for any reason, although there's nothing to stop them from making a SAR run further out. Nothing about anything beyond "supporting" DHS, which means exactly that: Lend a hand if requested, not do their job or operate outside the venue of Florida.

Or did I miss something?
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Old 14-09-2014, 19:14   #56
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Dan, what link? OOControl's link mentions nothing that I can see about FWC going outside of Florida's own waters (which would end 3 miles offshore) for any reason, although there's nothing to stop them from making a SAR run further out. Nothing about anything beyond "supporting" DHS, which means exactly that: Lend a hand if requested, not do their job or operate outside the venue of Florida.

Or did I miss something?
This was the link mentioned earlier about the boat being used up to 200 miles offshore, http://www.derecktor.com/2010/08/10/...o-the-fwc-810/

The boat in question:


Quote:
The vessel’s home port will be Carrabelle and her primary operational theater is the Gulf of Mexico out to 200 miles offshore.”
The FWC, like other state fish and game agencies, can enforce local, state, and Federal laws/regulations, thus the need for a boat that can go out 200 miles into the gulf.

Later,
Dan
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Old 14-09-2014, 19:26   #57
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
SNIP

Or did I miss something?
Yes, the reality on the ground, or perhaps more to the point on the water.

While Florida (nor any other state) has immigration laws Florida is subject to one of the strangest situations in terms of immigration. Cubans are legal immigrants if they step on dry land before authorities get them, but if they get caught on the water they are subject to deportation back to Cuba; the wet foot dry foot policy. Guess who catches a lot of them, FWC. They also assist the Coast Guard in many ways. Perhaps one of the biggest functions of the FWC deals with boats that run aground in fragile marine areas, or anchor in them. Six figure fines are common for boaters who damage certain types of sea grass or coral reefs.

John Yates had his boat boarded by FWC guys and was charged not only for violations of fishing laws but Sarbanes-Oxley violations as well. The FWC guys found undersize fish on Yates boat but (according to the DOJ) Yates threw some of them overboard resulting in the Sarbanes-Oxley charge for destroying business records. Appealed to the SC and arguments set for 5 Nov 2014.

Don't mess with the FWC cuz the DOJ bash you.

Oh yea this whole mess started in 2002 and is still not over.
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Old 15-09-2014, 10:44   #58
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Dan, I don't read it that way. The press release from Direktor, as the builder, only says "In 2008 the vessel was fully transferred to FWC and “Joint Enforcement Agreement” funding was acquired" which indicates this vessel is NOT your normal FWC watercraft.

Joint Enforcement sounds like the typical situation where someone (DHS, USCG, etc.) has paid for some or all of the asset, in exchange for a special status. That could mean that boat normally carries a USCG liaison onboard when operating in strictly federal waters, or a similar "special" status. The same way that a USCG vessel can stop a British merchantman on the high seas, because the Brits have specifically authorized them to do so. Absent the special authorization, we'd have the War of 1812 all over again.

State LEOs, State peace officers, are "out of jurisdiction" and have no authority outside of their own home venue. Unless, of course, that "Joint" program is something very specific and special. Your average bay constable or other FWC watercop? No way.

Reminds me of a story 5? 8? years ago about some raftees who were clinging to one of the support columns on the Overseas Highway. USCG said they were still "feet wet" and going back to Cuba. Except, that column was on a small island which Florida said was mapped and owned by Florida. "Feet dry" they had landed in the US and were entitled to stay here.

I never heard what became of that one.
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Old 15-09-2014, 12:55   #59
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Dan, I don't read it that way. The press release from Direktor, as the builder, only says "In 2008 the vessel was fully transferred to FWC and “Joint Enforcement Agreement” funding was acquired" which indicates this vessel is NOT your normal FWC watercraft.
...
The FWC has, or used to have, all sorts of boats, jon boats, large go fast boats, air boats, smaller inland water way boats. The FWC, like other game and fish agencies, does enforce Federal laws and regulations. They certainly enforce Federal fishery laws. Nothing new there. This has been going on for decades.

The Feds have quite a bit of money and equipment that they give away to local and state governments. Again nothing new there either. Many agencies have full time positions filling out applications to get the grants and equipment.

I know for a fact that decades ago, large numbers of GFC, pre FWC, officers where sworn in as US Marshals to prepare for an anticipated influx of people from overseas which never happened. Local and state officers are sometimes sworn at a Federal level. Again nothing really new. FWC officers are FLA state law enforcement officers enforcing more laws than say the FHP. They really don't have any more "power" than other state officers but they do have state wide jurisdiction and they know and enforce a much larger set of laws and regulations due to the job. Sounds like the FWC got a grant to get a surplus Federal boat and they are enforcing Federal fishery laws 200 miles out into the Gulf.

Many agencies have agreements with other jurisdictions so that the different agencies can help each other out. In this case, it sounds like the FWC has a few officers doing fishery patrols in state and Federal waters.

Later,
Dan
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Old 15-09-2014, 13:16   #60
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Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Quote:
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SNIP

The boat in question:




The FWC, like other state fish and game agencies, can enforce local, state, and Federal laws/regulations, thus the need for a boat that can go out 200 miles into the gulf.

Later,
Dan
Last time I was in the DT I saw this boat or one just like it. A commercial fishing boat was anchored maybe 100 yards off my port forward quarter. Had the live well running pumping lots of water and a massive genset powering the live well and way too many lights, especially after dark during turtle nesting season. One of the rangers called the FWC/whoever on the boat and it pulled along side the commercial fishing boat and spent at least 45 minutes there, with at least one of the commercial fisherman protesting loudly, longly, and profanely.

Like I posted don't mess with the FWC.
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