Another Schengen Thread

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by LJScott

Do you have any idea what amount of $ in the bank that various countries may be wanting to see in order to obtain a long stay Visa? Do 401K funds apply? My husband and I just bought a new boat and took her to Greece. We plan to spend six months sailing in the Med beginning next May and would REALLY like to avoid making our way to Turkey or Croatia for three of the six months if we can.

Unfortunately long stay visas are country specific. Some may have ones that suit others are in practice be inaccessible. In practice long stay visas that cruisers can acquire are virtually non existent

In practice if you only arrive and leave by yacht overstays are difficult to detect and enforcement is almost non existent. Transiting through airports Is a little more difficult

Legal or under the radar. Your choice


Dave

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Furthermore its gives you residency in Spain only. Schengen still applies elsewhere Dave

The Schengernrules apply in Theory. In practice however they can't be enforced. Nobody tracks your movements once you're inside the Schengen area.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The Schengernrules apply in Theory. In practice however they can't be enforced. Nobody tracks your movements once you're inside the Schengen area.

Not sure about how much one may or may not be tracked when traveling by boat but leave at an airport and you're pretty certain to have your arrival stamp checked at departure.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Not sure about how much one may or may not be tracked when traveling by boat but leave at an airport and you're pretty certain to have your arrival stamp checked at departure.

If you leave for somewhere outside of Schengen.

I'm however talking about travel within Schengen. There is no one looking at stamps in passports when traveling within the Schengen area. I've flown from Zürich to Berlin without showing any ID at all...

[K_V_B]

Re Schengen: I should be more specific I think...

If someone were to get a residence permit for a year for, say, Germany. Then in theory this person can stay for a whole year in Germany, but for travel to the rest of the "Schengen Area" the 90 days out of 180 rule does in theory apply.
My contention is that in practice this rule is not enforceable, so that in practice a one year visum for a Schengen country is equivalent to a hypothetical one year Schengen visa.

This because between Schengen countries there is no immigration control. So this person, armed with a German on year temporary resident visa now travels to, say, Italy. At no time will this person be asked to pass immigration. There might be an ID check at an airport (but their might also not be), but that is only to establish that you are indeed the person who bought the ticket. If you travel by car or by train there will be no ID checks at all. Passports will not be stamped, so there is not going to be a Schengen Entry stamp that can be to far in the past. There is no paper trail following your movements, so there is no way for the authorities to find out that you are not respecting the 90/180 rule.

I expect that the various separate long term visas will eventually be harmonised, and that we will see something like a Schengen Visa with a longer term. But in the mean time I think that getting a long term Visa for a Schengen country is a workable alternative.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Re Schengen: I should be more specific I think...

If someone were to get a residence permit for a year for, say, Germany. Then in theory this person can stay for a whole year in Germany, but for travel to the rest of the "Schengen Area" the 90 days out of 180 rule does in theory apply.
My contention is that in practice this rule is not enforceable, so that in practice a one year visum for a Schengen country is equivalent to a hypothetical one year Schengen visa.

This because between Schengen countries there is no immigration control. So this person, armed with a German on year temporary resident visa now travels to, say, Italy. At no time will this person be asked to pass immigration. There might be an ID check at an airport (but their might also not be), but that is only to establish that you are indeed the person who bought the ticket. If you travel by car or by train there will be no ID checks at all. Passports will not be stamped, so there is not going to be a Schengen Entry stamp that can be to far in the past. There is no paper trail following your movements, so there is no way for the authorities to find out that you are not respecting the 90/180 rule.

I expect that the various separate long term visas will eventually be harmonised, and that we will see something like a Schengen Visa with a longer term. But in the mean time I think that getting a long term Visa for a Schengen country is a workable alternative.

If you have a residence visa for a particular Schengen country then that is all the immigration officials will care about if you come and go from Schengen or if for what ever reason you have to present your passport.

The challenge is getting such a residency visa, not what you can or can't do when you have it

[goboatingnow]

National long stay visas ate in practice hard to get and don't suit cruisers. I'd say its not a solution in the main to the cruiser problem

Dave

[b_rodwell]

Setting a 2nd 180 day Schengen Period
I find it a bit difficult to get detailed information about how Schengen works. In particular what happens when you have entered the region, completed your 90 days outside and want to start a second 180 day period.

In particular what happens in this context:
. 80 days in the S region
. 90 days outside the region
. come back into the S region

Do you immediately start a new 180 day period or do you get to use the last 10 days of your first 180 day period?

Thanks

Brian

[monte]

you restart and get 90 days till you have to leave S. Just rememeber 90 days in any 180 day period.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by monte

you restart and get 90 days till you have to leave S. Just rememeber 90 days in any 180 day period.

But in this example it has only been 170 days since the party first entered Schengen so would he not have to wait ten more days to start the next 180 day period?

He would be entitled to ten more days in Schengen on the first 180 day period but if he was in Schengen for that ten days would the next 180 day period automatically start or would he have to leave and re-enter?

[monte]

I have read that you can do the following, but I dinlt think it is correct. .
Dates are examples :

Arrive Jan 1 (start 90 180 day period)
leave Jan 2 (pause 90 day period)
return march 30 resume initial 90 days)
stay till june 30 (complete initial 180 day period)
new 180 day period starts, stay till sept 30

This effectively gives you 180 days in the zone.

I did read that this is possible and legal, however it does require flying in and out of the zone 3 months prior to your intended stay.

Generally I do my planning based on 90 in, 90 out.

Example

arrive in France, stay 1 month (June)
arrive in italy stay one month (july)
arrive in Croatia, stay 2 months (August, Sept)
return to Italy/france for maximum 2 months.(Oct, Nov)

And yes they do check. I have been checked and dates calculated both in Portugal and Italy. The best option for long term visits is to secure a long term visa, or plan to spend equivalent time outside Schengen. Croatia is joining Schengen in 2015.

[Salmon17]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Here's what is happening at all the marinas and shipyards we've been at while in Spain. A worker will come around each day and check each boat to see which boats are in the marina, not making any contact, just taking an inventory on a ledger. I don't know what is done with the inventory list. In Cartegena, the officers come by every day checking all the new arrivals, passports and questioning everyone. When one arrives at a marina or shipyard, your vessel papers, your passport and insurance papers will be photocopied.

Cartagena seems to be a major exception of all laid-back places on Spanish coast. The officials also check boats anchored in nearby bays (they will come and interrupt your dinner, check the documents and the boat) and will come out to look at you even if you are on a night passage passing by Cartagena )))

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by monte

I have read that you can do the following, but I dinlt think it is correct. .
Dates are examples :

Arrive Jan 1 (start 90 180 day period)
leave Jan 2 (pause 90 day period)
return march 30 resume initial 90 days)
stay till june 30 (complete initial 180 day period)
new 180 day period starts, stay till sept 30

This effectively gives you 180 days in the zone.

I did read that this is possible and legal, however it does require flying in and out of the zone 3 months prior to your intended stay.

Generally I do my planning based on 90 in, 90 out.

Example

arrive in France, stay 1 month (June)
arrive in italy stay one month (july)
arrive in Croatia, stay 2 months (August, Sept)
return to Italy/france for maximum 2 months.(Oct, Nov)

And yes they do check. I have been checked and dates calculated both in Portugal and Italy. The best option for long term visits is to secure a long term visa, or plan to spend equivalent time outside Schengen. Croatia is joining Schengen in 2015.

You are correct , by starting the 180 day period and immediately leaving , it is then possible to return near the 90 days from the end and after that expires start a new 180 day period. Effectively giving you near 180 days contiguous. There was a EU court case involving France that proved the point recently.

However not all border guards are necessarily singing off the same hymn sheet.

Dave

[Frix]

Originally Posted by Salmon17

Cartagena seems to be a major exception of all laid-back places on Spanish coast. The officials also check boats anchored in nearby bays (they will come and interrupt your dinner, check the documents and the boat) and will come out to look at you even if you are on a night passage passing by Cartagena )))

Well, Cartagena is also the largest Spanish Navy port in the Med and quite close to North Africa. So maybe that helps explaining the increased vigilance.

Just a thought,
Frix

[boatman61]

Funny enough in over 25yrs the Spanish Aduana has only hit me once.. and that was at anchor in Andratx, Mallorca back in 97...
Cartagena and all other ports just checking into the marina was adequate... never had anyone come to the boat...
Times change I guess.. fewer foreign cruisers back then..