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affe304 · 09-03-2015, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

This thread starts with one wanting to do something they know isn't legal as they want to anchor is US waters without US visas. Why not just get the proper Visas? Or is there some issue there we're not aware of? Sure seems a lot simpler to comply with laws than figure out ways to circumvent them.

Have you tried to get the B1/b2 visa?

affe304 · 09-03-2015, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Spot on. Two weeks ago an immigration officer in Cruz Bay, USVI, confirmed that this "loophole" still works. You could avoid the ferry trip if you have an unexpired entry stamp into the US (eg in my case from flight into Miami 5 months before).

Any recent news if the "loophole" still works?

Hard Rock Candy · 09-03-2015, 18:42

This is still on the subject. Afew years ago a friend and I sailed to Cuba from Florida. When we checked out of the Hemingway Marina in Havana the port captain aske where we wer going from there. We told him Isla Mujures. I said that he would check us out of the country at that time and we could stop and anchor but could not go ashore without checking back into Cuba. At that time it was hard to check in north of Havana. So we pulled into a sheltered place and dropped the anchor. About 10 minutes later a police cutter came out and directed us to follow them into a port. We could talk no Spanish and they did not talk English but they had guns so we followed them into an anchorage. They tried to get us to come ashore, but we refused. There was a nice well dressed man that was unloading on a dock who heard our argument about not being able to come ashore and could talk English and Spanish so he worked as an interpreter for us. They allowed us to stay at anchorage there for the night and came aboard and cursorily searched our vessel in the morning and sent us on our way. Mac

**s/v Beth** · 09-03-2015, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's actually not illegal if their anchoring out is incidental to innocent passage through US waters on the way to somewhere else, they don't go on shore, cause pollution, etc, etc. But important to check and be sure the coasties agree, because their interpretation is the one which is important here.

Getting visas can be a huge hassle, especially if you are nowhere near a consulate.

So it's a perfectly legitimate question.

You know I like your opinions and rarely disagree...but.
Homeland security and Canada see this completely differently than you do up here in the PNW. I was going over to Sidney for boat repairs, though I would come in at night, Anchor outside the bay, and call customs in the morning (with my Q flag up of course) Wrong! they came out and said they were probably going to impound my boat, that once I had dropped anything on Canadian soil I was in Canada and had entered without going through customs. The first and only time I have ever feared these guys.
Homeland Security is even more volatile and I hear from my Ca friends that just traveling through you are boarded and subject to US regs. I know they have given my crew a rough time more than once for little problems, and they yelled at me for 2 hours when I came into port after hours (5:15 pm) because they had to come back to process me. We finished at midnight. USCG, however I have no complaint about.
And that is why I try to be nice to anyone who shows up at our little docks....

PhilDuhs · 10-03-2015, 01:01

I had a similar situation last summer in Croatia. We had come up from Montenegro and arrived at the customs dock in Caveat (southern-most port of entry in Croatia) at about 19:50 only to be told by an official looking person with an ID badge that the office was closing at 20:00 and that we'd have to anchor and come back in the morning. The anchorage in the bay in front of the customs dock was busy and it was getting dark so we motored around the corner to the next bay and anchored.

At 09:00 the next morning as we were washing up the dishes and preparing to go back to the customs quay a police boat arrived and wanted our papers. I explained what had happened and even offered to show them our GPS log to prove we'd gone to the customs dock the previous night and tried to do the right thing.

Initially they wanted to board the boat and impound it. They (I'm sure rightly) said that once we'd anchored we'd officially "arrived" in Croatia and should have continued up the coast to the next port where customs would have been open. Unless it was a policeman telling us otherwise then we'd done the wrong thing - it didn't matter that it was the port authority.

I refused them aboard and told them we'd follow them to the customs quay and do the necessary - which after a number of phone calls was what eventually happened. They wouldn't overlook the fine however and I can't remember what we paid - maybe $500? - but I do remember that if we paid by credit card on the spot with their EFTPOS machine we got a 10% discount.

In hindsight I would probably have done 2 things differently: (a) anchored in the bay directly in front of the customs quay, and (b) gone to the customs quay at 07:00 and waited for it to open at 08:00. Certainly in my mind, anchoring means arriving and you should clear customs first to stay out of trouble!

goboatingnow · 10-03-2015, 05:17

given that the US actually never ratified UNCLOS, I wouldn't push it

I was told in the BVI , that landing on USVI was sometimes overlooked but that was before 9/11

Lately I was told that if Im on a via wavier, even if stamped into the USVI, its illegal re -enter on a boat using that visa wavier, since it applies to entering the country ( and re-entering ) via approved commercial routes.

svlamorocha · 10-03-2015, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

given that the US actually never ratified UNCLOS, I wouldn't push it
I was told in the BVI , that landing on USVI was sometimes overlooked but that was before 9/11
Lately I was told that if Im on a via wavier, even if stamped into the USVI, its illegal re -enter on a boat using that visa wavier, since it applies to entering the country ( and re-entering ) via approved commercial routes.

In 2014 they would let me in with my waiver/ESTA eligible passport on my boat provided I had an unexpired entry stamp from a previous entry by commercial carrier.

goboatingnow · 10-03-2015, 05:28

Quote:

I beg to disagree. Innocent passage specifically includes anchoring, if it is incidental to ordinary navigation, or caused by necessity, etc. See below.

Now that's the letter of the law. However, the Convention leaves a wide range of possible interpretation of what might be "prejudicial to the peace, security" etc. of the state, and the U.S. Coast Guard, since going over to Homeland Security, is not known for its delicate respect for international agreements, so the letter of the law does not guaranty you won't be harassed.

Their have been several views that a pleasure vessel , triping around a countries coast, is in fact not entitled to innocent passage at all. Innocent passage is supposed to mean that your intended destination outside the country. ( or to its ports etc ) Article 25(2) recognise the fact that in vessels destined for port, the state can intervene to ensure that immigration law is unheld. Since cruising around a countries coasts is not expeditious , many have stated that such activity does not benefit from UNCLOS

By the way anchoring as part of a leisure cruise is NOT incidental to the purposes of navigation, for example you intend to cruise in territorial wages and anchoring for a few hours to swim. That is your navigational plan and hence you are subject to local laws etc.

Should you anchor as a result of weather , or other such force majeure, then you are under the protection of UNCLOS

goboatingnow · 10-03-2015, 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

In 2014 they would let me in with my waiver/ESTA eligible passport on my boat provided I had an unexpired entry stamp from a previous entry by commercial carrier.

interesting

**boatman61** · 10-03-2015, 05:42

Never use a visa anchoring... prefer the Bruce...

Mike OReilly · 10-03-2015, 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

You know I like your opinions and rarely disagree...but.
Homeland security and Canada see this completely differently than you do up here in the PNW.

Agreed. We had a similar experience a few years ago. I (foolishly) anchored before coming in. It was a reasonable decision based on factors, but the Canadian Border Service Agency people were unimpressed, to say the least. Threatened to impound our boat. Luckily they did not.

As I understand the law (as was "explained" to me by CBSA), innocent passage does not include routine anchoring, mooring or certainly not docking. As soon as you are affixed to land you are consider to have entered the country. Emergencies are OK, but they have to be real.

**boatman61** · 10-03-2015, 06:56

But.. moving to a serious note...
If your going to Vayage do your Research.. noonsite for example.. not

Countries differ and its wise to observe the Courtesy's and ALL countries have designated Clearing Ports.
Anything else before you clear in is a sign of Disrespect.
For example.. some countries like Vanuatu have a designated Quarantine Anchorage where the authoroties will come out to your boat and clear you in if you meet the nessecary requirements.
Some countries require you to go straight to the Customs Jetty before letting any part of your boat coming into physical contact with their territory..
Some are really laid back and you can anchor, go ashore and mooch about, do some shopping and then wander to the office the next day.. technically illegal but they're chill.
Oh.. should add.. 'How Chill' can sometimes be dependent on flag
Others like Australia will sieze your boat and deport you after possibly imposing a hefty fine to boot..
Its best to follow the rules.. you've a lot more to lose..

PS; Not picking Oz out... for other than the fact they're famous.. or should be by now after all the whinging over the years..

The 'Chill'... thats for me to know.. and you to find out..
Good sailing.. Be Safe..

Group9 · 10-03-2015, 07:08

With the current siege mentality we have in the US at present, even taking international agreements into consideration, I don't think I would be advising anyone to expect "right of innocent passage" to be honored in the US for a foreign vessel passing through, anchored or otherwise, in US territorial waters.

You're probably going to get boarded either way. And federal employees know there is no downside to detaining you as far as their employee evaluations go. These days, U.S. government employees are much more afraid of being accused of not being aggressive enough, than of being too aggressive, when it comes to anything that could possibly be viewed as coming under "anti-terrorism".

Don't do it.