Anchoring restrictions in New South Wales

[Zep]

Oh then it must be a local thing!
The BSO has nothing else to do! He's sick of checking mooring numbers.
To digress:
There are signs everywhere in NSW so many street signs & traffic signs that it's pretty much impossible to take them in. Unless you have a co-pilot. It seems there are so many that they are ignored.
The big revenue raiser in NSW is the Speed camera & Red light safety camera. They probably won't get much money from an anchoring offender. Most people are way too busy looking for cameras they can't read signs as well.

Sorry I've digressed a long way.
I just need to get to the boat, relax, take it easy. Let Gen Y take care of it.

Cheers

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by AiniA

What is a penalty unit?

Lookee here.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_unit

It means that the 'true' value of fines remains the same while the actual cash sum goes up with inflation.

[ozsailer]

Hi Gilow,
Jim identified the following "Marine safety regulations 2016 section 17A" I typed this into the search engine and all the details came up.



Greg H

[kryg]

This is what happens when a public service like the MSB who charge extraordinary mooring and registration fees. The highest in all the states of Australia by a 1000 percent, yes that is 1000% on mooring fees.

The MSB give nothing to the boat owners, just a invoice or a threat of boat confiscation if the do not pay.

So they are cashed up, they need to do something with their free time.

No other state in Australia is so out of balance with the boating community. Even if your boat is registered with the federal government a once only fee. this is of no consequent, you still need to pay a yearly registration fee in NSW regardless.
As a boat owner I consider it is not a licenses or registration fee, it is a form of state TAX to support an institution that has gotten use to ripping boat owners off and giving nothing in return.

MSB is in my view a group of officials, have gotten away with gouging boat owners by charge like wounded bulls. In return the create nothing. Insult to injury, we are the ones that paying for them to keep up their good work.

Frankly they need to be brought into account for the burden they impose on NSW boat owners. This NSW water service needs to have a government inquiry as to how they can justify there charges and rules they impose on boat owners.

Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of a state maritime boards, regulations and rules are part of running a state, like they have in most of the states of Australia, but not the MSB in NSW.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I was recently reminded that there are now some regulations regarding anchoring in NSW. They have been on the books for a while, but apparently are gradually being enforced in some areas, with some cruisers being told to move on from an anchorage where they had lingered "too long".

These are the relevant statutes:


MARINE SAFETY REGULATION 2016 - REG 17A Restrictions on time at anchor
17A Restrictions on time at anchor

(1) The operator of a vessel must not allow a vessel to be at anchor in NSW waters for more than 90 days in any calendar year.
(2) The operator of a vessel must not allow a vessel to be at anchor in any one place in NSW waters for more than 28 days in any calendar year.
Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.


The definition of "any one place" is apparently kinda arbitrary. Two specific areas that are each considered "one place" are Sydney harbour, including Middle harbour, and the Pittwater area, including all of Broken Bay up to the bridges near Brooklyn. Damn big "one places" in my eyes.

I have had personal communications with a friend at the management level in the Maritime organization. He said that the rules had been established to provide a means of getting rid of derelicts and squatters, not to harass cruisers (he's a cruiser himself). Unfortunately, it seems that patrol officers are individually applying it to whatever boat attracts their attention. One of those officers told me that they were developing a statewide data base to help with enforcement. How nice...

I don't have a clue how this will develop over time, but all who cruise on the NSW coast should be aware of the restrictions. Ever more pitfalls in paradise...

Jim

[GILow]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Hi Gilow,

Jim identified the following "Marine safety regulations 2016 section 17A" I typed this into the search engine and all the details came up.







Greg H

Thank you. I should have done the same. :^(

[daletournier]

Through dealing with government stupdity over the years i willfully became a criminal! I adopted the policy " ask for forgiveness not permission " i applied this to my business life and private life.

It abit of a drift but the ridculous amout of restrictions and red tape seriously hamper economic growth particularly for small business.

Good people get punished or slowed down by councils and states introducing legislation based on the lowest common denominator or in this case instead of dealing with the problem "derelict boats" just punish everyone.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Greg, it's worse that that! You are not restricted to 28 days in a row, but to 28 days in a calendar YEAR in "any one spot"..

The thought that commercial mooring/marina operators might profit from this ruling couldn't have factored in the decision... could it???

If they decide to enforce these rules rigorously, it will drive cruising sailors out of NSW waters to a large degree. I dunno if that is what they want to happen.

Jim

Jim, hi there is an appeals process known as the administrative appeals tribunal (I think that is the name of it) that tends to throw governmental bureaucrats into a bit of a tizz, (I know because I among others have had a win against the NSW Justice dept) but it does take numbers to be involved. The good thing is the suspension of the enforcement while the wheels turn.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Jim, hi there is an appeals process known as the administrative appeals tribunal (I think that is the name of it) that tends to throw governmental bureaucrats into a bit of a tizz, (I know because I among others have had a win against the NSW Justice dept) but it does take numbers to be involved. The good thing is the suspension of the enforcement while the wheels turn.

g'Day Uncle B,

No doubt there are various means of influencing such legislation. But as an overseas visitor here, I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to undertake such action. I'd certainly support it, though!

My guess is that it will not be very active except in the Sydney and Pittwater areas*, simply because there is not enough patrol officers in most areas. The threatened data base would mean that simply leaving Pittwater and going to the Clarence, etc, would not get you out of their clutches. What a miserable thing to have to worry about...

* maybe the Lake too...

Jim

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

g'Day Uncle B,

No doubt there are various means of influencing such legislation. But as an overseas visitor here, I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to undertake such action. I'd certainly support it, though!

My guess is that it will not be very active except in the Sydney and Pittwater areas*, simply because there is not enough patrol officers in most areas. The threatened data base would mean that simply leaving Pittwater and going to the Clarence, etc, would not get you out of their clutches. What a miserable thing to have to worry about...

* maybe the Lake too...

Jim

Jim I understand your situation however may I suggest that an email to the appropriate minister detailing your status and the fact that you not only spend a large portion of the year here spending on maintenance and sustenance but that the vessel in which you do so was built and purchased here and that to your knowledge many others cruising the east coast similarly contribute to regional economies.
I know that the likelihood of a single "comment" is unlikely to achieve much on it's own however if a large number of these comments arrive on the said desk, who knows ?
Cheers.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Jim I understand your situation however may I suggest that an email to the appropriate minister detailing your status and the fact that you not only spend a large portion of the year here spending on maintenance and sustenance but that the vessel in which you do so was built and purchased here and that to your knowledge many others cruising the east coast similarly contribute to regional economies.
I know that the likelihood of a single "comment" is unlikely to achieve much on it's own however if a large number of these comments arrive on the said desk, who knows ?
Cheers.

Well, I could do that! But I've no idea who/what the appropriate minister/ministry might be, nor how to contact them. Any help?

And if I as a lowly Yank visitor can be so moved, how about all the rest of the legions of CFers from NSW?

Jim

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, I could do that! But I've no idea who/what the appropriate minister/ministry might be, nor how to contact them. Any help?

And if I as a lowly Yank visitor can be so moved, how about all the rest of the legions of CFers from NSW?

Jim

Jim I would be happy to get the name, email address etc and will return later. Cheers.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Jim I would be happy to get the name, email address etc and will return later. Cheers.

Hi all, just returned from the office of my illustrious local MP, where I found that the minister responsible is Melinda Pavey MP. Whilst her ministerial email is unavailable (we wouldn't all the plebs finding that would we ?) the address for the ministerial office is apparently office@pavey.minister.nsw.gov.au and the suggested recipient would be chief of staff or senior policy adviser.
I will be sending a request for information on the impact assessment done prior to the application and subsequent enforcement of this policy, particularly regards the fact that much of the expenditure is in regional NSW, not dissimilar to the grey nomads that roam the countryside in their retirement.
I am sure that if most of the local members here were to do so we would at least be heard. (well maybe at least )

[markpierce]

If you are a "cruiser," doesn't that mean you should "move along" and not stay in place for the long term? Otherwise, shouldn't you pay for a berth and not go sailing, like ninety percent of boaters?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by markpierce

If you are a "cruiser," doesn't that mean you should "move along" and not stay in place for the long term? Otherwise, shouldn't you pay for a berth and not go sailing, like ninety percent of boaters?

Well, Mark, the NSW coast is roughly 625 nmiles long. It has several navigable rivers, dozens of bays, some very extensive, and heaps of decent anchorages.

It is far from unreasonable to spend more than 90 days in a year CRUISING on this coast, anchoring every night. Or to spend more than 28 days exploring Broken Bay. This rule could even affect local marina dwellers, say in the Pittwater, for if they spent every other weekend at anchor they would be breaking the law, even though they kept their boat in a marina the rest of the time.

For those of us with no fixed address, coupled with aging bodies, staying around the Sydney area for access to doctors can take more that a month. Doing normal boat maintenance can take a longish time as well.... all good reasons that one might be "in one place" for more than 28 days.

Should we pay for a berth like you suggest? Not always even possible, for there is a sad lack of marina berths available for transients, and the costs would make your eyes water if you could find a spot.

It is hard for me to understand the downside of our being here. We don't take much from the system and we spend foreign cash into the local economy. We pay at least some taxes, and some of us actually pay some local income tax as well. We don't benefit from many of the excellent Australian social welfare systems, we don't attend schools or send kids to them, we don't drive o n the roads or park on the streets. We do enjoy the parks and the aids to navigation, which are well maintained and plentiful, but there is no incremental cost involved with our usage.

So, w hy are they effectively chasing us out? I don't get it. But go we will, and spread our spending to other states, ones that seem to appreciate us more.

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Should we pay for a berth like you suggest? Not always even possible, for there is a sad lack of marina berths available for transients, and the costs would make your eyes water if you could find a spot.



Jim

Even if you could find and afford a marina berth, you're not allowed to liveaboard in a marina in NSW anyway.