Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2010, 10:26   #61
Registered User
 
BubbleHeadMd's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater, MD
Boat: Coronado 25
Posts: 315
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleHeadMd
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaWriter View Post
Yes. The Florida Marine patrol can board you at any time. So can the county sheriff or the city police.
Ok, this is the 4-5th time I've seen this statement. What about laws preventing unlawful search and siezure? He's in US waters. These laws don't apply? Probable cause doesn't apply?

The USCG might be a different matter, but the FL Marine Patrol?
__________________

__________________
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
BubbleHeadMd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:30   #62
Registered User
 
FloridaWriter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maitland, FL
Boat: Bristol 29
Posts: 230
At the heart of this issue is that Miami is trying to force use of a new city mooring field, not condo owners who don't want to see anchored boats. There is Florida law speficially forbidding what has happened to Ben and others. I would notify Bill McCullin the Attorney General frist, then attend the hearing and site the Florida statutes prohibiting this action. Sarasota tried the same nonsense of prohibiting anchoring in favor of a newly-built and very expensive mooring field.
__________________

__________________
David www.bristol29.com
"The lookout that first sights the cat shall have ten guineas and remission of sins, short of mutiny, sodomy, or damaging the paintwork." - Jack Aubrey
FloridaWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:31   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Although it does seem unfair to "run someone out of town" for no good reason, There is no real point in letting it effect your happiness. I would just move on. There are pleanty of other places to go. Doing battle with beaurocracy seldom has a favorable (or fair) outcome.
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:34   #64
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleHeadMd View Post
Ok, this is the 4-5th time I've seen this statement. What about laws preventing unlawful search and siezure? He's in US waters. These laws don't apply? Probable cause doesn't apply?

The USCG might be a different matter, but the FL Marine Patrol?

Just a guess...but I think It falls under "vehicles" Law enforcement doesn't have to get search warrants to stop and search your car, truck or Motorhome or plane either...even if you live in them.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:36   #65
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Melbourne, FL
Boat: Island Packet 380
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Officer J. Estevez

[EDIT by TaoJones] The notice to move is viewable at:

Bristol Channel Cutter Elizabeth

I am curious why the location is covered up? Is nobody involved willing to say where in Miami this is going on?
__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:36   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,848
Where exactly is this anchorage?
__________________
motion30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:36   #67
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
I think that the error was in going to a place like Miami, or as I hear Nanaimo in BC. If a locality has made it known that they are unwelcoming it should be avoided. Perhaps when I get my megayacht I will be welcomed. Untill then I will only fight city hall in my home port.

Cheers
So what do you suggest? To keep moving and as a new community starts using these tactics? You will end up with no place to go eventually.

The unfortunate thing is most of us are on our way somewhere. We stop for rest, reprovision, see the sights, visit family & friends, and many other reasons. Most don't have the time to put up any resistance, so we oblige with the request.

The first time I anchored between Palm, Hibiscus, and Star Islands in South Beach. My wife met a man in the laundry mat. They were talking, and she had told him we were living on a boat. He told her he was from Hibiscus, and the locals did not like us sitting in their backyards.

People like Jennifer Lopez, Julio Inglesis, and filthy rich corporate peole live on these islands. Money pushes a lot of power, and some of these residents push for what they want. Rightfully so there were boats that were boatbums, and a real eyesore. Not to mention unable to move. People using the toerail of their squatter boats as toilets in public. I can understand the concern about these types.

Now the funny thing is after this man complained. He asked for a boat ride since he had family coming into town. He wanted to show them around, and give them a sail.

Sounds like Ben may have indirectly caused some of his own problems? Maybe he needs to write a little closer to the truth, or add some smiley faces? Maybe cruisers need to carry around with them the ruling handed down, and hand it to the offending officer? Ask them to explain the ruling, and get a badge number & name. Of course being polite the whole time, and not defiant, but proving your rights.

For me it doesn't matter anymore. I am out of Florida just as fast as I can get Imagine ready. We'll do our usual stop in South Beach to visit friends, and top everything off. We'll cross the stream to never return. BEST WISHES in this stupidity being resolved.........i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 10:48   #68
Registered User
 
FloridaWriter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maitland, FL
Boat: Bristol 29
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleHeadMd View Post
Ok, this is the 4-5th time I've seen this statement. What about laws preventing unlawful search and siezure? He's in US waters. These laws don't apply? Probable cause doesn't apply?

The USCG might be a different matter, but the FL Marine Patrol?
A boat is considered a vehicle, not a home. The Florida Marine Patrol is a branch of the Florida Highway Patrol.

Also it is the "normal" job of the Florida Marine Patrol--when they are not acting as enfocers for brain-dead city officials--to inspect boats to ensure they are sporting in-date Florida registration numbers or in-date registration numbers from another state. Florida law requres all visiting out of state yachts who are in the state longer than 90 days to acquire a Florida registration--even though they can continue to display the out of state registration. If the out of state registration expires, then they acquire Florida registration before the 90 day deadline AND display the Florida registration. So the FMP is doing the equivalent of chaulking tires to keep track of the boats in each marina and anchorage.
__________________
David www.bristol29.com
"The lookout that first sights the cat shall have ten guineas and remission of sins, short of mutiny, sodomy, or damaging the paintwork." - Jack Aubrey
FloridaWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 12:11   #69
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleHeadMd View Post
Ok, this is the 4-5th time I've seen this statement. What about laws preventing unlawful search and siezure? He's in US waters. These laws don't apply? Probable cause doesn't apply?

The USCG might be a different matter, but the FL Marine Patrol?
There are no search and seizure laws governing boats as there are for your home, car or person. Any law enforcement agency can stop and board your vessel at their discretion and you must comply. This was established by the original Continental Congress to stop smuggling and to control contriband as well as blockade runners during our many wars. Those laws are still in effect today. No need for probable cause, etc. WG
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 12:41   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Savannah, Ga.
Boat: Hunter 34 - Monica Lee
Posts: 3
4th Amendment

Actually, I believe a person's boat is covered under the 4th Amendment as long as the "expectation of privacy" test has been met.
__________________
Skipper519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 12:58   #71
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,794
Send a message via MSN to John A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipper519 View Post
Actually, I believe a person's boat is covered under the 4th Amendment as long as the "expectation of privacy" test has been met.
Good luck on this one!! I'd suggest you present facts to support your claim.
Maybe we should ban together and take this one to the Supreme Court.
The USGC can board any US flaged vessel anywhere in the world, for any reason.
__________________
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 13:00   #72
One of Those
 
Canibul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Boat: Catalac 12M
Posts: 3,209
just about this time each year, during the 'busy season', people come down to visit us on their yearly week's vacation, and they always ask us if we miss living in the USA. And every year, without fail, we don't have to look very far to come up with some reasons why we absolutely do not miss it. A few years ago it was the law against riding in the bow of a bow rider. then it was the law against standing and leaning on a leaning post while the boat was underway. I remember the one in NJ when they made it illegal to order eggs sunny-side-up.....the last year or so we have been astonished at how many first , second, and third grade criminals there are in the US. You know, the kids that get arrested for possession of a peanut, or for wearing the wrong party's political t-shirt.

Gimme a good old third world country any day. Where you know exactly where to pay a minimal bribe to get things done, and the system works very well. It's live and let live, for the most part, unless you are causing a problem. The laws are on the books, but there seems to be a major difference. They only use the law if they need to, because of a specific problem. Have you guys ever looked at how many law enforcement agencies there are in the US? How many Americans are in jail or prison?

I would like to find the idiot that trumpeted this 'zero tolerance' attitude the first time, and choke him to death with it.
__________________
Expat life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/
Canibul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 13:43   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Savannah, Ga.
Boat: Hunter 34 - Monica Lee
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
Good luck on this one!! I'd suggest you present facts to support your claim.
Maybe we should ban together and take this one to the Supreme Court.
The USGC can board any US flaged vessel anywhere in the world, for any reason.

For reference see 4th Amendment U.S. Constitution and subsequent legal interpretations. Yes, might makes right and I would not interfere with the USCG. However, we are a nation of laws that even the federal government has to adhere to and if the search was ruled illegal any evidence obtained subsequent to said search could be ruled inadmissible.
__________________
Skipper519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 14:41   #74
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
just about this time each year, during the 'busy season', people come down to visit us on their yearly week's vacation, and they always ask us if we miss living in the USA. And every year, without fail, we don't have to look very far to come up with some reasons why we absolutely do not miss it. A few years ago it was the law against riding in the bow of a bow rider. then it was the law against standing and leaning on a leaning post while the boat was underway. I remember the one in NJ when they made it illegal to order eggs sunny-side-up.....the last year or so we have been astonished at how many first , second, and third grade criminals there are in the US. You know, the kids that get arrested for possession of a peanut, or for wearing the wrong party's political t-shirt.

Gimme a good old third world country any day. Where you know exactly where to pay a minimal bribe to get things done, and the system works very well. It's live and let live, for the most part, unless you are causing a problem. The laws are on the books, but there seems to be a major difference. They only use the law if they need to, because of a specific problem. Have you guys ever looked at how many law enforcement agencies there are in the US? How many Americans are in jail or prison?

I would like to find the idiot that trumpeted this 'zero tolerance' attitude the first time, and choke him to death with it.
Absolutly right!!! At the end of the day those who have the guns make the rules. Amother one of my favorites: "Law is politics by other means".
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2010, 14:46   #75
cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
Any police agency can board any vessel.

And, the reason I would notify the officer of the hearing is to put him on notice so that if he arranges a tow, then he is violating the law. I prefer that to hoping that the officer won't show up at the hearing. Also, the point is not to win at the hearing because the officer doesn't show, but to win on the merits.
In Canada, they need a search warant from a judge, to whom they must show evidence of a crime being committed. That warrant can be challenged. Vive la difference!
__________________

__________________
Brent Swain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, miami

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beaufort, NC Members...Picture Request - Sailboat Anchored in Taylor's Creek Zach Off Topic Forum 3 23-02-2010 06:45
Speedboat T-Bones Anchored Baba 40 TaoJones Cruising News & Events 25 11-08-2009 00:44
Hello From Miami,FL AtomicPhil Meets & Greets 9 16-07-2009 21:28
Hello From Miami sylaubh Meets & Greets 4 14-06-2009 14:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.