Anchored Cruiser Harassed in Miami

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by s/vfootloose

He also mentioned he had raw sewage all over his cabin sole and waded thru it and went to bed without washing feet..

Should read the next paragraph where he says "Anyways, actually, none of that happened at all"

I guess the part about wading through the sewage was humor?

[LittleFlower]

I am concerned with the direction this thread has taken. Concerned mostly because its about my friend, who reads this forum too. Much of what is said is assumptions and not at all what happened in Miami, so I realize that it is now more of a theoretical thread than one of actual events. Forums can get out of hand.

In defense of Ben, you should all know that he is one of the most upstanding sailors I have met. He is professional, legal, and moral in his actions and will also be in the way he chooses to respond.

I like forums and discussing boaty issues, but I think from now on I will stick to reading and posting on engine parts and beautiful destinations.

Sincerely,
Teresa
Sailing, Simplicity, and the Pursuit of Happiness

[LittleFlower]

skipmac,

Yes, ben's blog post was a joke and he said that in the text. The events in that post are impossible and outrageous. S/V footloose is making a lot of assumptions. To clear up another one; Ben has NOT been at the anchorage since Jan. 7.

As I mentioned before; Ben is in FULL COMPLIANCE WITH ALL WASTE REMOVAL LAWS AND ANCHORING LAWS.

Sincerely,
Teresa

[skipmac]

Hi Littleflower,

Please don't get discouraged by a few misunderstandings on the forum. At the end of the day, sharing information like this I think is important. If fellow cruisers are being harassed and local authorities are not complying with state law it will continue unless cruisers stand up and stand together.

Do keep us posted on how this works out.

Skip

[John A]

Originally Posted by motion30

John
So you are saying we should adopt Haitian Law now? John you are not making much sense

No I'm not saying that! I was just pointing out that other countries look at justice from a different angle..
It appears that I've done something I promised myself that I wouldn't do--- side track a thread.

My apologies to the OP. .

I'm afraid I'm on a different page than most of you here in this forum. I'm ending my boat experience after 22 years as a liveaboard, and was out cruising as a singlehandler for ten of those years, fussing about in third world countries. Adjustment to life on land has not been easy, as something has happened to peoples atitudes since I've been gone, and not for the better. Clinton was Pres. and the Dot com world was still alive and well. People still treated each other with respect. All three are never more.

But enough of that!! Please return to your rants against the FWC.

regards John

[tallyhorob]

Originally Posted by John A

No I'm not saying that! I was just pointing out that other countries look at justice from a different angle..
It appears that I've done something I promised myself that I wouldn't do--- side track a thread.

My apologies to the OP. .

I'm afraid I'm on a different page than most of you here in this forum. I'm ending my boat experience after 22 years as a liveaboard, and was out cruising as a singlehandler for ten of those years, fussing about in third world countries. Adjustment to life on land has not been easy, as something has happened to peoples atitudes since I've been gone, and not for the better. Clinton was Pres. and the Dot com world was still alive and well. People still treated each other with respect. All three are never more.

But enough of that!! Please return to your rants against the FWC.

regards John

But we are not in other countries, so making it ok by saying it worse somewhere else is just wrong. Hence why they are called 3rd world, as they come up they make rules and things along the way.
And whatever thoses rules are weather I like them or not I would except myself and everyone to follow them. That includes the LEO's. And I think the law should be enforced for both sides.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by LittleFlower

skipmac,

Yes, ben's blog post was a joke and he said that in the text. The events in that post are impossible and outrageous. S/V footloose is making a lot of assumptions. To clear up another one; Ben has NOT been at the anchorage since Jan. 7.

As I mentioned before; Ben is in FULL COMPLIANCE WITH ALL WASTE REMOVAL LAWS AND ANCHORING LAWS.

Sincerely,
Teresa

Little Flower, I was talking about Vineyard Haven and before that the lagoon. Sorry you have once again found yourself in the midst of a Cruisers Forum snarlfest. It is always so amazing to me after being away from civilization for a little while how, emotional, catty, and distraught people can be over dumb sh#t like parking your boat. There is such a stark contrast between the realness of actually sailing and the fretting and hand wringing that can go in the "real world". I am not dumping on CF or even the harbor patrol for that matter, call it more of a stark observation. The energy that comes from the mis-communications, people's imaginations running wild, and bruised egos is quite frankly a little maddening. Cops and CF member alike are difficult because they are all humans and unfortunately humans are just plain difficult, myself included, of course.

[Canibul]

Since when is Miami part of the US? As the unofficial capital of Latin America, it's about as third world as you get.


And the fact that you paid a million dollars for your condo doesn't mean you own the ocean in front of it for as far as the eye can see, either.

[amytom]

Maybe the postings are a test? Any boats that either don't move or don't complaing about the notice are to be considered abandoned. Especially the boats that still have the notice taped to the outside un-read. 3 or 4 un-read postings would convince a judge that the boat is abandoned and should be junked.

[JackHinks]

I think that if a law enforcement officer is harrassing a boater, then the one thing to do, in my opinion, is to get the boaters to band together and get an attorney, and yes, fight it. If this is done enough times, law enforcement will get the message. Neither individual police officers, nor their superiors, who have to schedule their shifts and coverage, like to spend their off-days, or the time before or after their shifts in court. Face it, unless you are an attorney, charging $300+ an hour, who in their right mind enjoys spending time in court. The problem may be, that law enforcement at times, likes to lean on those without the resources to fight back. No one leans on drug dealers lightly or the wealthy. And yes, there is pressure from the condo-commandos to do something about those "boat bums."

[Artful Dodger]

After reading all these comments I'm wondering what really brought the notice. For me I think I would stand on my deck and look around, as I think somone has bent the ear of the officer and the officer might be trying to do something in response to his ear bending, which might cause the boaters to move on. That being said if it was more than that, I would believe the officer would be back checking on his efforts. Some where I think someone's nose is out of joint about the sailors and it's not the officer, I would be more incline to believe it is a land lover.

[IdoraKeeper]

Certainly a cruiser who is not wealthy will have a hard time in many places. There are frequent problems any time people are cheek by jowl. I know people who are disturbed by any type of owner maintenance. They seem to think that it indicates something antisocial as opposed to self reliance. I think that the error was in going to a place like Miami, or as I hear Nanaimo in BC. If a locality has made it known that they are unwelcoming it should be avoided. Perhaps when I get my megayacht I will be welcomed. Untill then I will only fight city hall in my home port.

Cheers

[BubbleHeadMd]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

<snip> There are frequent problems any time people are cheek by jowl. I know people who are disturbed by any type of owner maintenance. They seem to think that it indicates something antisocial as opposed to self reliance. <snip>
Cheers

Idora, you just became my new best friend. You're exactly right. That's why I abandonded townhouse living. I was viewed as a scumbag by my neighbor because I dared to fix things myself.

[FloridaWriter]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I hope the owner is willing to play this out for the good of cruisers. The notice gives a clear course of action - send a letter asking for a hearing. He should take the letter in person and get a written receipt. He also needs to have a way to know the hearing date when it is set. I'd probably also give the officer a phone call and (in a really friendly way) say that I had requested the hearing.

Whatever else the owner may or may not have been doing wrong, the matter is now bounded by the officer's checking of box "B". It would seem to be quite a challenge for a hearing officer to find against the owner as he can prove that the boat is not abandoned and/or not on private property (even if the city claims ownership of the entire bottom, box "B" specified "private" property). No lawyer would be necessary. At the very worst, he would lose the hearing and then have to move.

The public record of the hearing (win or lose) should be forwarded to the Florida state attorney general along with some pictures and map of the vessel location. This is really a bigger issue of a city zoning regulation vs. state statute. I imagine that the state would take issue with some of the wording on the Miami notice.

Separately, I also have a question of the Miami "marine patrol" boarding. If the vessel is CG documented, the Coast Guard has a right to board. Can a local police (or other federal agency) board without permission of the vessel's captain? (I realize that it is almost never a good idea to annoy the police so this is more of a theoretical question).

Carl

Yes. The Florida Marine patrol can board you at any time. So can the county sheriff or the city police.

[GordMay]

As Ben Eriksen notes*, he received the notice on Saturday (Feb 20/10), and was:
“... still anchored here. We’ll see how this plays out tomorrow …”

He hasn’t posted since.

Might he have been arrested, and disappeared to Guantanamo?

* Bristol Channel Cutter Elizabeth