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Old 21-02-2010, 17:14   #31
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excactly where in miami are we talking about?
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Old 21-02-2010, 17:57   #32
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Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
There is no reward for being a poster child. One person winning does not make it better for anyone else. The idea he should do this so someone else won't have to is not really the point. As a cruiser you are outnumbered and outgunned by an order of magnitude beyond someone local.
In the law, one person winning is called precedent. Judges make rulings based one person winning all the time. That a cruiser is outnumbered in a local municipality is all the more reason to unite and organize. Like this forum and Boat US. Look at special interest groups in congress. Many small groups organize and then gain much power.

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At this point it's just a goofy sign left on the boat. It's up to the boat owner to decide what it really means.
It is more than that. It is several cruisers being harassed by the local government. But now the word is out. And perhaps action will be taken.
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:17   #33
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If people are having trouble adjusting to the actions of officials in their home country, they're really going to have a terrible time when they take their boats and atitudes to a third world country!

Sorry but this sounds like "ugly Americains" ranting about there right to do what ever they please.

Don't you realize that when you move onto your boat that you are now "different"?
You're now a water person amongst dirt people. No longer are you a person of importance that you were at work or the suburbs. You don't pay local taxes, you don't vote in local elections, you don't contribute a darn thing to the locals - you just take. And now you get upset when the locals apply their rules.
Get a grip on reality folks, a person has already tried to tip over a windmill.
Do what makes cruising so great, pick up your anchor and move on.
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:24   #34
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If people are having trouble adjusting to the actions of officials in their home country, they're really going to have a terrible time when they take their boats and atitudes to a third world country!

Sorry but this sounds like "ugly Americains" ranting about there right to do what ever they please.

Don't you realize that when you move onto your boat that you are now "different"?
You're now a water person amongst dirt people. No longer are you a person of importance that you were at work or the suburbs. You don't pay local taxes, you don't vote in local elections, you don't contribute a darn thing to the locals - you just take. And now you get upset when the locals apply their rules.
Get a grip on reality folks, a person has already tried to tip over a windmill.
Do what makes cruising so great, pick up your anchor and move on.
The reality is that rule the FWC is trying to impose is no longer a rule as stated by the state of Fl.
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:25   #35
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Sorry John A but I think you are missing the point. Sure one can up anchor and move on, but the issue here seems to be the local authorities violating the laws of the state. I cannot see how standing up for ones legal rights makes one an ugly American.
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:26   #36
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I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there John. If this were a case of an American causing a ruckus in another nation, I'd totally agree but this is about a U.S. citizen in his own country. Are you saying that people should just let legislature or law enforcement (anywhere in your home country) just steamroller over you?

You make is sound like seeking redress in the courts is some kind of crazy act. "Picking up your anchor and moving on" is just going to put you back in trouble when you put your hook down again.
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:47   #37
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Paul,

I understand your view and agree that we always must remember we are guests where we cruise. Maybe I'm a dying breed but if my boat had that sign (and my schedule permitted), I would definitely ask for a hearing as prescribed on the notice. That's why it's there. There's clearly some confusion - but it may be nothing more than that. The sooner it's cleared up, the better for me, the police and other cruisers.

I sympathize with Miami when I look at the condition of some of the cruising boats (although there are a lot more eyesore buildings than eyesore boats in Miami) but the state law is reasonably clear. Cruisers have to stand their ground - or at least ask questions. They are not second class citizens anymore than a visitor who arrives by car. Frankly, except for a handful of the well connected, I doubt being a resident of Miami would give one any more influence.

In dealing with the government I am unfailingly polite, understanding ("doing your job"), and exactly follow whatever procedure they specify. In my experience, a disingenuous excuse like "it wasn't signed" is the kind of attitude that make things worse. My business used to be helping people accused of white collar crime. I don't remember ever creating a grudge.

I agree with you that the easier route is just to move along. While life is too short to spend it all fighting city hall -- it's a lighter burden if we all take our turn.

Carl
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:48   #38
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I'm missing something?

30 days sounds kind of long to me. It may be a matter of principle to fight city hall but for what its worth, I'd move to a freindlier area and then come back later. Kind of like playing visa hopping. You can fight and win, but it will be a headache and costly.

I hope we get to see how it turns out!
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Old 21-02-2010, 18:50   #39
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I concede that FWC is wrong according to FL law. Good luck on your fight. It's been raging for a couple of years now. Stupid people in their multi-million dollar condos should not complain when we live in their front yard for free.
My point was that the reasoning powers of local authorities in third world countries is going to be more difficult, and that your desire for things to be done according to law is going to suffer somewhat.
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Old 21-02-2010, 19:01   #40
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The basic principle of American Law is that the power of government is derived from the people. The government can act as authorized by the people and no further.

When the government acts beyond its authority, it is the duty of the people to stop it.
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Old 21-02-2010, 19:07   #41
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John,

You're absolutely right that the approach I might use in Miami wouldn't be a good choice in some other countries - 1st, 2nd or 3rd world. For all its other warts and problems - and there are many - dealings with government and the police in the US still has a remarkably low level of corruption and "influence". Part of keeping it that way is to push back when the government oversteps. While the US is certainly not the only country (or even the best) at doing this, I'm glad it's still part of the culture.

Carl
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Old 21-02-2010, 19:49   #42
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John A,

Absolutely in a third world the situation might be quite different. Rule of law does not always apply and trying to push against the authorities, even when you are in the right, could work against you.
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Old 21-02-2010, 19:57   #43
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Napoleonic code

French countries and others, Haiti for one, are governed by Napoleonic code/law. Among other things, one is guilty until proven innocent.
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Old 21-02-2010, 20:36   #44
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John
So you are saying we should adopt Haitian Law now? John you are not making much sense
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Old 21-02-2010, 20:57   #45
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Im sorry if I offended anyone. I am fully aware that Fl cops can be A-holes. Ft. Lauderdale is worse than Miami. I would assume he is anchored just south of Ricnenbacker causeway. But maybe y'all should read his blog the one dated 1/7 says he is now in livaboard mode that would infer that he has been here since that time. He said that a boat anchored near him complained about the smell I would guess that would be 100' or more away a pretty powerful smell. Then he has a photo of his head on the deck saying he ordered parts and would repair when he had time. He also mentioned he had raw sewage all over his cabin sole and waded thru it and went to bed without washing feet. He's lucky they didn't board him and write him up for a nonfunctioning head. I'm sure he is a nice guy but he has done everything to ensure he is harrassed and is now offended that he has been asked to move along. Right or wrong it would seem to be in his best interest to move.
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