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Old 21-02-2010, 08:54   #16
jzk
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The notice says that the boat must be moved within 30 days. And, it also says that a hearing can be requested within 10 days. That is what I would do. Request a hearing, and then go to battle. And, I would notify the officer that the hearing has been requested and that if they try to move the boat before the hearing, that I would sue them. I don't believe that one needs a lawyer for this hearing.
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Old 21-02-2010, 09:05   #17
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Would it be uncool to get the name of the officer and post it? Sounds pretty unethical for an officer to harass someone in violation of the law.
Officer J. Estevez

[EDIT by TaoJones] The notice to move is viewable at:

http://bccelizabeth.com/
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Old 21-02-2010, 09:26   #18
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The stuff you dig up Gordy...You blow me away some times..

Im just taking a guess here...But I have a feeling there might have been some symphity in the officers voice as he was " Instructing" the owner of his options...And i would wager to bet the officer was told to go serve the boat owner and not self target him as it is being alluded to here...He has a job description to follow and was just preforming his superiors orders....I hope im right...I have met both types of inforcmernt mentality...Little hilters and Doc Holliday types.
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Old 21-02-2010, 09:27   #19
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One bit of advice to anyone wanting to "fight city hall." The marine patrol can board and search your vessel at any time for any reason. It would be a very good idea to have all of one's ducks in a row like registration, whistle, lifejackets, etc.
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Old 21-02-2010, 13:53   #20
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Looks like the officer forgot to sign the document. That might invalidate it, of course you would have to go to court to find out...
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Old 21-02-2010, 14:24   #21
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I live in Fl and find enforcement of laws a problem at times but this guy seems to be a part of the problem. he has been here for a month and a 1/2. his boat stinks so bad his neighbors are complaining. He is working to earn money but doesn't want to become part of the community. He is part of the reason that responsable cruisers are harrassed. If someone parked his car at the end of your block crapped behind the bushes and worked at day labor would you complain?
This guy lived in my hometown harbor for ,I think, about a year and yes, he and his beautiful and well maintained boat(s) were a welcome addition to our community. And no, no one complained that I know of. Since when is it a bad thing to live and work somewhere? Isn't that how we become part of a community?
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Old 21-02-2010, 14:32   #22
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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
The notice says that the boat must be moved within 30 days. And, it also says that a hearing can be requested within 10 days. That is what I would do. Request a hearing, and then go to battle. And, I would NOT notify the officer that the hearing has been requested and that if they try to move the boat before the hearing, that I would sue them. I don't believe that one needs a lawyer for this hearing.
There, fixed it for you.

He doesn't owe the officer any such notification. I'd post a copies of my court date in the port lights in case a towboat came calling. You see, the officer is probably a busy guy and may or may not pay attention to a notice he receives from the courts about a pending court date. If the officer doesn't testify, then the whole thing gets thrown out.

If you rub your court date in his face, he'll make damned sure to be there.
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Old 21-02-2010, 14:34   #23
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Thumbs up DING DING!

Ding Ding! UnBusted!!!

And Yea, isn't a signature required? From Officer J. Estevez?
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Old 21-02-2010, 14:47   #24
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I hope the owner is willing to play this out for the good of cruisers. The notice gives a clear course of action - send a letter asking for a hearing. He should take the letter in person and get a written receipt. He also needs to have a way to know the hearing date when it is set. I'd probably also give the officer a phone call and (in a really friendly way) say that I had requested the hearing.

Whatever else the owner may or may not have been doing wrong, the matter is now bounded by the officer's checking of box "B". It would seem to be quite a challenge for a hearing officer to find against the owner as he can prove that the boat is not abandoned and/or not on private property (even if the city claims ownership of the entire bottom, box "B" specified "private" property). No lawyer would be necessary. At the very worst, he would lose the hearing and then have to move.

The public record of the hearing (win or lose) should be forwarded to the Florida state attorney general along with some pictures and map of the vessel location. This is really a bigger issue of a city zoning regulation vs. state statute. I imagine that the state would take issue with some of the wording on the Miami notice.

Separately, I also have a question of the Miami "marine patrol" boarding. If the vessel is CG documented, the Coast Guard has a right to board. Can a local police (or other federal agency) board without permission of the vessel's captain? (I realize that it is almost never a good idea to annoy the police so this is more of a theoretical question).

Carl
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Old 21-02-2010, 15:03   #25
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Separately, I also have a question of the Miami "marine patrol" boarding. If the vessel is CG documented, the Coast Guard has a right to board. Can a local police (or other federal agency) board without permission of the vessel's captain? (I realize that it is almost never a good idea to annoy the police so this is more of a theoretical question).Carl
Any police agency can board any vessel.

And, the reason I would notify the officer of the hearing is to put him on notice so that if he arranges a tow, then he is violating the law. I prefer that to hoping that the officer won't show up at the hearing. Also, the point is not to win at the hearing because the officer doesn't show, but to win on the merits.
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Old 21-02-2010, 16:25   #26
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I hope the owner is willing to play this out for the good of cruisers
There is no reward for being a poster child. One person winning does not make it better for anyone else. The idea he should do this so someone else won't have to is not really the point. As a cruiser you are outnumbered and outgunned by an order of magnitude beyond someone local. You don't always have the ability to bear the whole responsibility for all that may follow else you could never go anyplace. Going far enough will expose enough injustice to make you sick. The world is not perfection and one boat load of people are not going to right all the wrongs. One needs to take some sense of perspective as one goes across the many local boundaries. Leaving a wake behind may catch up. It would be better to have left no wake and thus aid in ones return at some distant time instead of laying a mine field behind. A long journey is not always unidirectional.

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Separately, I also have a question of the Miami "marine patrol" boarding
It's not a part of this discussion. Marine police are governed by FL law and not local Dade County law. The USCG has the right anytime, any place, and not just in US waters. The USCG is military not police.

At this point it's just a goofy sign left on the boat. It's up to the boat owner to decide what it really means. They may decide to plop it on another boat in the night and sail off or maybe someone else did it to them. We all know nothing what so ever about this sign and the speculation is unlimited. It's easier to say what you think someone else should do than to actually do it and live with the results. Best case is this guy is tied up for a few weeks with the problem of resolution and then risks losing and having to leave or risk winning and starting a real fight where names are named and someone has to hold a grudge.

The notice was not signed because the officer expected it to do what was intended with no signature - to move the boat along. The actual towing and destruction of the boat is an implied threat and nothing more than that. For an owner to just play this out on their own is just too stupid. One violation is not winning the war that has not been declared.
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Old 21-02-2010, 16:28   #27
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capcook,

the issue here is not about the head. s/v Footloose introduced that issue to this thread and made some false assumptions.

The person we are speaking of is in full compliance of ALL anchoring and waste removal laws.

Sincerely,
Teresa
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Old 21-02-2010, 16:39   #28
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Good to see you Little Flower...I take it your a long way from home now if your in Florida...One winter aboard up north was enough I bet....Good on ya!
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Old 21-02-2010, 16:47   #29
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Thanks Stillraining.

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Old 21-02-2010, 17:07   #30
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unbusted67, what harbor are you speaking of?

In regards to the suggestions that Ben request a hearing or move after 30 days thereby following the instructions on the notice I'll let you all know a little bit more that happened in that anchorage:

-Many sailors were aboard their boats when the notice was given.
-Many sailors were given DIFFERENT warnings: one day to leave, several days, must leave immediately, etc.
-All written notices said 30 days.
-Not everyone that was given a verbal notice was given a written notice.
-Not all boats in the anchorage were given notices, including boats that were there for many months.

Also, I'm going to repeat what I said earlier:

A cop said to one of the other sailors that if he didn't move and fought it in court then, the sailor would win, but only after paying for a lawyer, paying inbound fees, and the hassle. If the cops know that the sailor would win in court (because he is following the laws) why would they trouble the boats? In my book, thats harassment.

The entire operation is inconsistent, unpredictable, unprofessional, and sketchy. Very scary that our law enforcement can do this.

Sincerely,
Teresa
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