Anchor Balls and Inverted Cones ?

[Roaring Girl]

Those solar lights are fine if all you're doing is lighting your own way around the deck. They actualy aren't easy to see over a great distance and, being usually a self-contained battery may not stay on all night (especially anchoring at night in high latitudes in winter). So while they're cheap and appear easy, they do have some drawbacks.

We have one somewhere and it kept coming on at inconvenient moments and giving a badly obscured stern light when we didn't want it. I can't remember where it's stowed at the moment!

The davis light I referred to above is $44.95 at marine store, and you could make it for even less. Really - it's hardly the most expensive piece of kit on the boat!

[Roaring Girl]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

yeah right l was in france spain and italy and ive seen anchor lights running lights and everything else in between been used incorrectly, as to day shapes, please no self respecting frenchman ever uses one!, about the only day shape i;ve seen was his speedos hanging on the line.

I've seen them used wrong but also many times used right by French and Italian sailors in particular.

Besides, the fact that the next door boat was badly lit isn't a lot of use if its yours they bashed in to.

[chala]

on this tricolor the all-round light is located below the sidelights.

[chala]

Originally Posted by jackdale

There is at least one meter between the masthead and sidelights on this Bavaria 40. This is a common arrangement.

Better not motor with the head sail on.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by chala

on this tricolor the all-round light is located below the sidelights.

It is an anchor light, not a masthead / steaming light.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by chala

Better not motor with the head sail on.

Huh? Sorry, I am not sure of your point.

[chala]

Originally Posted by jackdale

It is an anchor light, not a masthead / steaming light.

It is also an all-round white light. Rule 23 (c) (i) used rightly or wrongly by many folks all around the world as a masthead light. By the way steaming light does not appear in Rule 21 Definitions.

Originally Posted by jackdale

Huh? Sorry, I am not sure of your point.

Simply the head sail will obscure the masthead light.
Also the boat if over 12m (40ft 12.192m) cannot use his anchor light, which is also an all-round white light (if there is one at the top of the mast) in lieu of a masthead light.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by chala

It is also an all-round white light. Rule 23 (c) (i) used rightly or wrongly by many folks all around the world as a masthead light. By the way steaming light does not appear in Rule 21 Definitions.

Yes I know that. The masthead light is a 225 degree not, all round. Although, as you noted, small powerboats may be able a use 360 as a masthead and sternlight. A sailboat does not have that privilege.

Simply the head sail will obscure the masthead light.

True. I would never motor with the headsail unfurled. It flogs the sail.

Also the boat if over 12m (40ft 12.192m) cannot use his anchor light, which is also an all-round white light (if there is one at the top of the mast) in lieu of a masthead light.

That only pertains to powerboats. To be legal a sailboat (not a sailing vessel) requires separate masthead, stern and anchor lights. You have to be able to turn off the masthead light.

[Extemporaneous]

And so do you have any comments on Day Markers i.e. Anchor Ball & Inverted Cones?
Do you use them?
Do you see others use them?

Extemp.

[Sharkman]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

And so do you have any comments on Day Markers i.e. Anchor Ball & Inverted Cones?
Do you use them?
Do you see others use them?

Extemp.

In the UK:
Anchor ball - yes, always.
Inverted cone - sometimes, in busy waters or shipping lanes.

Others:
Anchor ball - most boats
Inverted cone - we saw one last year in 20 weeks

As a commercial yacht skipper, I've always stuck to the rules, not just because they are right, but also because in the event of an incident I'd have no defense of ignorance of the rules.

Re insurance - many years ago I had to sign an affidavit to the effect that a boat anchored near me was displaying an anchor light, after they were hit and seriously damaged by a fishing boat at night. The FV claimed that the yacht was unlit - which was not the case. It didn't get to court, but had the yacht not been correctly lit, it would at least have counted against the owner, and rightly so - he would not have been observing COLREGs, and so would have (at least) to bear some of the responsibility.

Incidentally, many professional seamen I have met have complained about yachts that don't display the inverted cone, as they can't always tell whether the yacht is under power or sail, and get fed up with giving way to boats that can eventually be seen to be under power. Sooner or later I think there will be a bad accident where this will be a significant factor, and then we'll all have to wake up to the implications.

[chala]

Originally Posted by jackdale

A sailboat does not have that privilege.

Sailing Vessels or sailboats when propelled by machinery become Power-Driven Vessels and Rule 23 apply.

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

And so do you have any comments on Day Markers i.e. Anchor Ball & Inverted Cones?
Do you use them?
Do you see others use them?
Extemp.

Yes I do use them.
And I have noted that mainly cruising Scandinavians are also keen to use them.

[Extemporaneous]

So would this work, or is there an exacting specification on it?
Might want to trim the base round?
And turn it up side down.

Extemp.

[BubbleHeadMd]

If you painted it black, I suppose it would work, but those things are heavy. They sell lightweight, inexpensive, flat-folding(for ease of storage) dayshapes. The traffic cone probably costs more.

[David M]

Dayshape sources... (These collapse)
Anchoring Ball

Steaming Cone

Day Shapes « Ship's Stores | American Nautical Services

[swagman]

For the OP question, my experiences are as follows.

Neither shape got much use (or recognition) in Australian or NZ waters when sailing there from 1975 to 1990.

Overall, where I've seen them used in other parts of the globe in the years since, I've seen the ball more often that the cone. Maybe a ratio of 20:1.

Re balls - in the UK I think maybe 25% of local sailors use them.
Methinks a higher percentage of Brits who go cruising globally adopt a greater use abroad - maybe as many as 50% can be seen often in anchorage. But close alongside the Brits would be a high percentage of German / Dutch / Scandawegian who we find are quite direct and proud of their use when the subject gets discussed.

I am like others not conveinced the insurance argument is valid, but have to say over the years have gone from arguing against use (seemed silly to me back then) to now displaying the anchor ball.

And whilst I hate to admit this, I've found I now get this funny superior feeling (maybe already experienced by those louder cruisers) as it goes up in a new anchorage. Naughty, eh?

So overall not a lot use them when crsuising globally, but where they do IMHO Brits lead in usage followed closely by Dutch, Belgian, Scandiwegians, Germans.

I consider a lot of cruisers to be naturally risk adverse - hence adoption of the signals to minimise any possible claim - even if one is unlikely to arrive. What does stun me if often cruisers bother with a ball in dayalight hours, then have those piddly little garden solar lamps that you only ever manage to see when you are .5 metre away from them at night.........rediculous.

Anyway, back to subject in hand.

IMO France maybe 5% of locals bother.
From what we've seen in Portugal / Spain / Greece / Italy / Turkey even less of the locals. None at all seem in Isreal or Egypt or indeed any locals in Caribbean.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
JOHN