All things COLREGS no 2

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Last week a friend of mine with the same boat took another fellow from back East and his family, and me, out for a sail. While we were chatting on a lovely daysail with wonderful 12 knot winds, a GLORIUS and unusual day for SF Bay during ANY time of year, the guest said: "Yeah, we moved into a marina with a LOT of racers, and when I told them they were all rude, we always wondered why they never talked to us again."

He didn't realize that while my friend and I BOTH cruise, one of us won the most recent one-design National Regatta for our boats and the other is a consistent winner in summer and winter racing series and our one-design yearly races.

Gee, wonder why there was dead silence.

Your attitude is showing. Really.

My experience tells me that racers know the rules, and that non-racers should, too.

They should avoid racing fleets if they can. But if someone is racing, it doesn't mean they can circumvent the rules. In fact, during our daysail that day, we encountered a racing fleet and we were on port tack.

As we cleared some racers after their spinnaker takedown buoy roundings, I deliberately said: "Oh, we have right-of-way," just to see if this guy/guest had a clue.

Nope.

Too bad. All our skipper wanted to do was to show him an up-close buoy rounding without impeding the racers.

Who were ALL quite graceful and understanding.

Labeling any group of folks is really unfair and merits questioning behavioral patterns on your own part.

Learn the rules and use them wisely.

I'm not labeling a group, I'm sharing an observation that I have made about many racers, and that you yourself pointed out. Many Racers tend to push their rights whether racing or not. Many become a hazard to navigation. Many are TERRIBLE at sharing the water and are very proud of it. On ColRegs 1 many actually brought up racing rules in the discussion because they believed ,some how, their club racing rules had relevance in an international ColRegs discussion.

I'm not saying all , I'm not even saying you, I'm saying a vast many racers are waterway hogs.

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[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

1 I'm not labeling a group, I'm sharing an observation..........

2. Many Racers tend to push their rights whether racing or not. Many become a hazard to navigation. Many are TERRIBLE at sharing the water and are very proud of it. On ColRegs 1 many actually brought up racing rules in the discussion because they believed ,some how, their club racing rules had relevance in an international ColRegs discussion.

3. I'm not saying all , I'm not even saying you, I'm saying a vast many racers are waterway hogs.

1. Good

2. "...push their rights..." This is the part I don't understand. Rights? Heck, without getting off topic, that's why revolutions get started... If it's a right, it's not a wrong. I agree, however, that club rules should never supersede Colregs.

3. We also agree that there are jerks out there. Not all of them are racers, are they?

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

1. Good

2. "...push their rights..." This is the part I don't understand. Rights? Heck, without getting off topic, that's why revolutions get started... If it's a right, it's not a wrong. I agree, however, that club rules should never supersede Colregs.

3. We also agree that there are jerks out there. Not all of them are racers, are they?

Dude take it easy. Where you sail maybe there aren't red faced, pushy, angry, half cut, testosterone driven racers who like to push beyond the comfort zones of ordinary boaters in order to achieve "Right Of Way".

Where I sail there are. Clearly the racers in San Francisco Bay aren't like that.

At the end of the day if I see a race, and I know their obligation is to maintain course and speed, no colision course currently exists, I won't hesitate to head into the middle of it, because we all know what's going to happen when a J105 sails head long into a 24000 lb 36 year old cruising boat.

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[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

On ColRegs 1 many actually brought up racing rules in the discussion because they believed ,some how, their club racing rules had relevance in an international ColRegs discussion.


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I think the racers were pointing out that racing rules do bestow "right of way" during the circumstance of racing. I do not believe we were saying racing rules take precedent over or circumvent the COLREGS when sailing in the same waters with boats/ships that are not racing.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

1 Where you sail maybe there aren't red faced, pushy, angry, half cut, testosterone driven racers who like to push beyond the comfort zones of ordinary boaters in order to achieve "Right Of Way".

2 Where I sail there are. Clearly the racers in San Francisco Bay aren't like that.

3 At the end of the day if I see a race, and I know their obligation is to maintain course and speed, no colision course currently exists, I won't hesitate to head into the middle of it, because we all know what's going to happen when a J105 sails head long into a 24000 lb 36 year old cruising boat.

Golly, I think we're agreeing with each other more and more. Kinda like the RIGHT direction for these discussions to go, dontcha think?

1 Shucks, we have jerks, too. You can tell they're coming 'cuz they're yelling. Well, at least the a$$hole skipper is.

2 See #1. Universal jerks are the worst. I hear they actually travel all over the world.

3 Couldn't agree with you more. I'm only 16,000, bu a J24 thinks I'm the Saratoga!

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

I think the racers were pointing out that racing rules do bestow "right of way" during the circumstance of racing. I do not believe we were saying racing rules take precedent over or circumvent the COLREGS when sailing in the same waters with boats/ships that are not racing.

Any boats. I agree.

**************************************

I thought Dockhead started this, but Rustic Charm did this one AND that one:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gs-142538.html

[markpierce]

Racers should (and I expect them) to maintain a steady course unless there is a navigational need (racing buoy, edge of channel, etc.). But I don't trust any amateur to follow the Colregs, so it's best to be alert. Understand YRA rules say racers aren't to bully their way over non-racing ships/boats. If a racer "does" you, contact the race committee within 18 hours and get the racer disqualified.

[Olde Chief]

For what it is worth I have fewer problems with real sailors, whether they are Racers or Cruisers, than I do those over weight fat slobs driving those top heavy gas guzzlers. most of which appear to be under the influence of something, and think they can do anything they want too. They probably have never heard of the COLREGs. Hope to sail San Francisco Bay again one day..

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Golly, I think we're agreeing with each other more and more. Kinda like the RIGHT direction for these discussions to go, dontcha think?

1 Shucks, we have jerks, too. You can tell they're coming 'cuz they're yelling. Well, at least the a$$hole skipper is.

2 See #1. Universal jerks are the worst. I hear they actually travel all over the world.

3 Couldn't agree with you more. I'm only 16,000, bu a J24 thinks I'm the Saratoga!



Any boats. I agree.

**************************************

I thought Dockhead started this, but Rustic Charm did this one AND that one:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gs-142538.html

Ya, we probably are agreeing. I do get an evil grin on my face when I know a J or similar is pushing its luck though.

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[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Olde Chief

For what it is worth I have fewer problems with real sailors, whether they are Racers or Cruisers, than I do those over weight fat slobs driving those top heavy gas guzzlers. most of which appear to be under the influence of something, and think they can do anything they want too. They probably have never heard of the COLREGs. Hope to sail San Francisco Bay again one day..

Fortunately, it's rare I have problems with either.

[markpierce]

Aaaahh. No sailboats that day in Petaluma turning basin.




(Since there are some 80 course adjustments needed on the several-mile navigable portion of the Petaluma River, sailboaters tend to motor rather than sail.)

[monte]

I don't see an inverted cone day shape on your vessel Mark. Are you using sails alone there?

[markpierce]

Boat is under 12 meters in length, so a cone isn't required.

[monte]

Ah yes

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Olde Chief

Anyone who is traveling on the Water, In the Air, or on a Road has The Responsibility to Avoid an Accident if Possible. MY RULE, IF IT IS BIGGER THAN ME OR WILL HURT MY BOAT, I STAY CLEAR...

And you wonder why we are called WAFIs by the big boys !!!!!


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[carstenb]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Boat is under 12 meters in length, so a cone isn't required.

Not sure you're 100% correct on this. Rule 25 does not mention that it isn't applicable to boats under 12 meters and a (very) during quick flip throughthe rest of the rules I couldn't find anything that said so either. NOw i fyou're under 7 meters.........................

ailing vessels underway and vessels under oars.

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;
(ii) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.

(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.

(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

(ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.