All things COLREGS no 2

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

That was Canada in the early 90s. The tc examiners weren't to bad, but if you wanted a degree to go along with the licence....

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We had to know them very very well, it just didn't need to be word perfect, frinstance, when asked what rule you would just have to say, Rule 15 which says that as they are on my starboard side I shall keep out of the way of them.
Examiners could soon tell who knew what they were talking about and who didn't.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

We had to know them very very well, it just didn't need to be word perfect, frinstance, when asked what rule you would just have to say, Rule 15 which says that as they are on my starboard side I shall keep out of the way of them.
Examiners could soon tell who knew what they were talking about and who didn't.

I suppose, depending on the rule, we would have to know verbatim, or the general sense. Obviously rules like 5 word for word, lights and sounds, obviously not.

I concede your point.

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[FamilyVan]

But I guess two guys discussing and agreeing doesn't get us to 19 pages does it?

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[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

But I guess two guys discussing and agreeing doesn't get us to 19 pages does it?

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Guess not, and since I lost some of my fingers to a 'gator up the Rio Pongo and most of the rest to frostbite I have become a man of few words....

Long time ago but I suppose some of the rules between 12 and 19 we needed to be pretty close to word perfect so as to lose no meaning.
If you gave the correct responses you were pretty safe but anyone who was a bit shaky on any rule would get the third degree.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You're welcome.

There's a concurrent thread on the same topic and the only result is a lot of head bumping and arguing. A second thread on the same topic is not likely to make things any better.

I think the most important thing to know about the COLREGS is, unless it's a professional, the boater you meet on the water is unlikely to know them. While you might know what to do and what he/she should do, you should assume that he/she won't do that and be prepared to take appropriate action. There's a difference between being right and being dead right.

The first thread was not just on the COLREGS but on the use of a specific phrase which was the subject. I have no desire to see that topic repeated here. Nor will I be participating in it if it does.

And I agree with your second paragraph.

[Rustic Charm]

In my opinion, it's heavily geographical and probably situational. I'm purely a recreational mariner now, but in the 90's I operated professionally/commercially (same thing here) operating police boats. Like fisherman we remained in our given areas and never got to go particulary far. My learning is purely academic and lacks significant practical experience, because there just isn't the traffic here. Hence, I would not even consider travelling to places like the English Channel highway, without much more detailed study. Even as a police officer out on patrol we paid little attention to breaches of the rules.

All that is required here to sail/motor recreationally in any size vessel is a boat license. In the 80's you got this by paying a fee, in the 90's they introduced a short course which has the rules if the road etc but most people wouldn't have any knowledge that these are rules from something called COLREGS. Having a commercial qualification I never needed one.

In this area of the world I believe just a basic understanding of the COLREGS is more than suffient to sail around this area.

However, my experience since sailing recreationslly after buying my own vessel I still don't think many recreational boaters in this area of the world know even the most basic of sound signals, lights or even passing rules.

Last year I was in Vietnam in Haylon Bay, and as conjested as that area is, I doubt they have any knowledge of the rules either. Not that I could understand anyway. If anything it seemed to be first in has the priority and bigger gets to push harder.

Any vessels, regardless of recreational or commercial travelling widely, travelling overseas, should in my view have a very substantial understanding of the rules both in theory and in putting them into practice.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

In my opinion, it's heavily geographical and probably situational. I'm purely a recreational mariner now, but in the 90's I operated professionally/commercially (same thing here) operating police boats. Like fisherman we remained in our given areas and never got to go particulary far. My learning is purely academic and lacks significant practical experience, because there just isn't the traffic here. Hence, I would not even consider travelling to places like the English Channel highway, without much more detailed study. Even as a police officer out on patrol we paid little attention to breaches of the rules.

All that is required here to sail/motor recreationally in any size vessel is a boat license. In the 80's you got this by paying a fee, in the 90's they introduced a short course which has the rules if the road etc but most people wouldn't have any knowledge that these are rules from something called COLREGS. Having a commercial qualification I never needed one.

In this area of the world I believe just a basic understanding of the COLREGS is more than suffient to sail around this area.

However, my experience since sailing recreationslly after buying my own vessel I still don't think many recreational boaters in this area of the world know even the most basic of sound signals, lights or even passing rules.

Last year I was in Vietnam in Haylon Bay, and as conjested as that area is, I doubt they have any knowledge of the rules either. Not that I could understand anyway. If anything it seemed to be first in has the priority and bigger gets to push harder.

Any vessels, regardless of recreational or commercial travelling widely, travelling overseas, should in my view have a very substantial understanding of the rules both in theory and in putting them into practice.

Exactly so, and be prepared that others are unlikely to know or care, particularly the large sport fishing boats' skippers.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Really? Because there were a bunch of pedantic old brits at my maritime college that made us remember the whole thing word for word. Then there the Indian instructors- they were worse.

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+1. Same for me


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

In my opinion, it's heavily geographical and probably situational. I'm purely a recreational mariner now, but in the 90's I operated professionally/commercially (same thing here) operating police boats. Like fisherman we remained in our given areas and never got to go particulary far. My learning is purely academic and lacks significant practical experience, because there just isn't the traffic here. Hence, I would not even consider travelling to places like the English Channel highway, without much more detailed study. Even as a police officer out on patrol we paid little attention to breaches of the rules.

All that is required here to sail/motor recreationally in any size vessel is a boat license. In the 80's you got this by paying a fee, in the 90's they introduced a short course which has the rules if the road etc but most people wouldn't have any knowledge that these are rules from something called COLREGS. Having a commercial qualification I never needed one.

In this area of the world I believe just a basic understanding of the COLREGS is more than suffient to sail around this area.

However, my experience since sailing recreationslly after buying my own vessel I still don't think many recreational boaters in this area of the world know even the most basic of sound signals, lights or even passing rules.

Last year I was in Vietnam in Haylon Bay, and as conjested as that area is, I doubt they have any knowledge of the rules either. Not that I could understand anyway. If anything it seemed to be first in has the priority and bigger gets to push harder.

Any vessels, regardless of recreational or commercial travelling widely, travelling overseas, should in my view have a very substantial understanding of the rules both in theory and in putting them into practice.

In the areas I sail , I meet considerable ship traffic , including fast cats ( though less so these days ) . In most cases I adopt the keep out of their way , well in advance of any application of the steering rules. However close quarter situation inevitably occur and it's in these situations that yachtsmen display their ignorance.

Having said that when in close quarters , I always adopt the rule ( rule 0) do not stand on into danger !

Dave


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[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In the areas I sail , I meet considerable ship traffic , including fast cats ( though less so these days ) . In most cases I adopt the keep out of their way , well in advance of any application of the steering rules. However close quarter situation inevitably occur and it's in these situations that yachtsmen display their ignorance.

Having said that when in close quarters , I always adopt the rule ( rule 0) do not stand on into danger !

Dave


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sounds very sensible.

[sailing mike]

The Skipper has to know the Colregs, and enforce them on the boat. In the event of an 'incident'. At the inquiry, if a lack of knowledge is apparent. There would be a major problem. The boats insurer would be extremely 'interested'......and there would be other repercussion.
One Skipper who flaunted the Colregs in the English Chanel had to pay a £15000 fine.
So learn the Regs.....


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sailing mike

The Skipper has to know the Colregs, and enforce them on the boat. In the event of an 'incident'. At the inquiry, if a lack of knowledge is apparent. There would be a major problem. The boats insurer would be extremely 'interested'......and there would be other repercussion.
One Skipper who flaunted the Colregs in the English Chanel had to pay a £15000 fine.
So learn the Regs.....


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Actually bizarrely , admiralty courts tend to expect more of people that have specific documented competency rather then rank amateurs. Since in the UK, there is no requirement to display ANY knowledge , it is hardly fair for such courts to penalise you for something you don't need to know.

Judgements have shown, they hold to a far higher standard of operation, those that have ( or should have ) manifest competency and knowledge. so a sailor with a Yachtmaster certification. Will be held to higher account, then Barry from the chip shop,that just bought a ski boat. !!!!

Note the fishing boat that t boned the Alexandra Von humbolt got fined 1700 pounds !!!

Dave


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[moseriw]

Should be no Question to know the rules of the road. Sailing since 1973 and often beeing a charter skipper and always on leisure I created my own rules:

1.) commercial traffic goes first - give way
2.) special in the season a lot of weekend-skippers are out there
it is not worth the damage - give way
3.) Beware of Powerboaters - they often leaf the bridge to the AP not
thinking that they are damned fast - so give way.

Protesting: yes when under sail and it is not easy to divert BUT early.

Be aware that the big steamers often think they have the right of way as all
leisures always let them go but in fact if you are on sails only he should give way.

and keep the fact in mind that you are doing 6 knots and a cargo ship is doing 17-24 knots sometimes. Believe my experiences it is a hell of a challange when you are spreded downwind with 6 knots beeing on collision course with a freighter doing 18 knots and his alarm goes off 2 cables before he oveerruns you. What can you do? Hail? He wont hear you.
radio? maybe but before things are controlled you are drowned.
The only way is a white signal rocket. And aim on his Bridge! Of course not if he is carring dangerous goods!!

[accomplice]

It would seem obvious that any competent seaman knows the rules and regulations where he sails. Many sailors, however, spend their entire sailing career on inland waters on which different (not COLREGS) rules apply. Clearly, it is not necessary that they know COLREGS.

[moseriw]

Should be no Question to know the rules of the road. Sailing since 1973 and often beeing a charter skipper and always on leisure I created my own rules:

1.) commercial traffic goes first - give way
2.) special in the season a lot of weekend-skippers are out there
it is not worth the damage - give way
3.) Beware of Powerboaters - they often leave the bridge to the AP not
thinking that they are damned fast - so give way.

Protesting: yes when under sail and it is not easy to divert BUT early.

Be aware that the big steamers often think they have the right of way as all
leisures always let them go but in fact if you are on sails only he should give way.

and keep the fact in mind that you are doing 6 knots and a cargo ship is doing 17-24 knots sometimes. Believe my experiences it is a hell of a challange when you are spreded downwind with 6 knots beeing on collision course with a freighter doing 18 knots and his alarm goes off 2 cables before he oveerruns you. What can you do? Hail? He wont hear you.
radio? maybe but before things are controlled you are drowned.
The only way is a white signal rocket. And aim on his Bridge! Of course not if he is carring dangerous goods!!