Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: Can you legally sail solo single handed
Yes, as long as you use all available means to keep a look out 66 62.26%
No, all solo sailors are in breach of the Colregs 29 27.36%
The Colregs are intended for two handed sailors not one 3 2.83%
What's the Colregs? 9 8.49%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2015, 00:10   #151
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
RC & others -- Don't forget that Colregs Rule 1 (Application) lists some fairly broad categories which expressly contemplate "Special Rules" which may be enacted by signatory states for various purposes. In other words, it might be correct that the Colregs themselves must be adopted "word for word" by every state and that modifications also exist, since those very modifications are specifically authorized in the Colregs themselves. Not saying you are necessarily wrong, just that to make your point the modifications you cite must not already be authorized by the rather broad language in Rule 1.
Yes, Rule 1. certainly does allow for that. Perhaps it's my black and whiteness, but I fail to comprehend how 'must be adopted word for word' but then modifications are specifically authorized exist together. Personally, I'm not aware of any requirement by the IMO that they have to be adopted 'word for word'. The wording is, "shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules".

And certainly the fact that South Africa even has an exemption clause, what was not anywhere included in the rules, seems to indicate that the states are pretty free to do as they wish, as long as they 'conform' as closely as possible. Interesting.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:40   #152
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Avoiding the pedantic discussion for a moment, I'd like to consider the case of a single hander needing desperately to sleep displaying the NUC signals when in the open ocean. Apparently this contravenes the colregs, and we know that some folks believe simply that he shouldn't be there... but looking at it realistically, what harm is done? The worst seems to be that an approaching vessel avoids the NUC chap when he should not have to. Since this should only involve a small course change, there is little to complain about. "No harm, no foul" and all that. It seems to me that given the choice between NUC and NOT NUC, given that the SHer is going to sleep anyway, the NUC presents the least likelyhood of a disasterous encounter. Yes, it isn't according to the rules, and yes, it means that the SHer is selfishly causing additional (but very small) risk to others, but in the great scheme of things it seems trivial to me.

Consider that at this time... any time of day or y ear... there are some 10 or 20 large bulk carriers drifting off of the east coast of Australia, displaying NUC lights and AIS signals. They are not in distress, their engines and steering are in good nick, but they are avoiding harbour fees whilst awaiting their turn at the coal loader in Newcastle, Gladstone or some other Aussie port. The authorities are well aware of this practice, it obviously contravenes colregs, but nothing iis done about the practice. Compared to this, the SHer seems small potatoes to me.

Any comments?

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 02:00   #153
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Avoiding the pedantic discussion for a moment, I'd like to consider the case of a single hander needing desperately to sleep displaying the NUC signals when in the open ocean. Apparently this contravenes the colregs, and we know that some folks believe simply that he shouldn't be there... but looking at it realistically, what harm is done? The worst seems to be that an approaching vessel avoids the NUC chap when he should not have to. Since this should only involve a small course change, there is little to complain about. "No harm, no foul" and all that. It seems to me that given the choice between NUC and NOT NUC, given that the SHer is going to sleep anyway, the NUC presents the least likelyhood of a disasterous encounter. Yes, it isn't according to the rules, and yes, it means that the SHer is selfishly causing additional (but very small) risk to others, but in the great scheme of things it seems trivial to me.

Consider that at this time... any time of day or y ear... there are some 10 or 20 large bulk carriers drifting off of the east coast of Australia, displaying NUC lights and AIS signals. They are not in distress, their engines and steering are in good nick, but they are avoiding harbour fees whilst awaiting their turn at the coal loader in Newcastle, Gladstone or some other Aussie port. The authorities are well aware of this practice, it obviously contravenes colregs, but nothing iis done about the practice. Compared to this, the SHer seems small potatoes to me.

Any comments?

Jim
I'd agree with that.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 02:06   #154
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,949
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

I wouldn't have a problem with it... but as I said before find me a boat with NUC lights in her kit...and that can display them... and where the skipper feels inclined to go to the trouble of rigging them when beyond exhausted.

Just turn on your deck lights, anchor lights, etc .... far better chance of being seen... far better chance of not being hit...red lights are the hardest of all lights to see .....
El Pinguino is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 02:31   #155
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with it... but as I said before find me a boat with NUC lights in her kit...and that can display them... and where the skipper feels inclined to go to the trouble of rigging them when beyond exhausted.

Just turn on your deck lights, anchor lights, etc .... far better chance of being seen... far better chance of not being hit...red lights are the hardest of all lights to see .....
I often wonder whether a strobe light would ever be introduced for sail boats. You can see a strobe far beyond what you can see continuous lights.

A couple of years ago when on a night run across out strait I was approaching the mainland when the ais indicated a well know passenger ship had come out of the bay and initially seemed to be on our course. I got on the radio and called it by name and pretty soon had an officer on duty checking for us. He couldn't pick me up on radar initially and asked if I had my lights on. I described what lights I had on but even at about 4 miles on a relatively calm night, he couldn't see me. Only when I put my anchor light on for him did he pick me up. Shortly after seeing my anchor light, he picked me up on radar.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 02:36   #156
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with it... but as I said before find me a boat with NUC lights in her kit...and that can display them... and where the skipper feels inclined to go to the trouble of rigging them when beyond exhausted.

Just turn on your deck lights, anchor lights, etc .... far better chance of being seen... far better chance of not being hit...red lights are the hardest of all lights to see .....
Yes, I doubt if any cruisers, SH or not carry NUC signals. And I agree that simply lighting the hell out of your boat should in fact have much the same effect... sure does for me when I see a strange, well lit object at sea: I avoid it!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 04:40   #157
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I often wonder whether a strobe light would ever be introduced for sail boats. You can see a strobe far beyond what you can see continuous lights.

A couple of years ago when on a night run across out strait I was approaching the mainland when the ais indicated a well know passenger ship had come out of the bay and initially seemed to be on our course. I got on the radio and called it by name and pretty soon had an officer on duty checking for us. He couldn't pick me up on radar initially and asked if I had my lights on. I described what lights I had on but even at about 4 miles on a relatively calm night, he couldn't see me. Only when I put my anchor light on for him did he pick me up. Shortly after seeing my anchor light, he picked me up on radar.
I don't think a strobe would work. White strobes already represent either buoys or a vessel in distress, red and green strobes, I hope we know what they mean, yellow strobes are taken and blue for government vessels.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 04:43   #158
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Yes, I doubt if any cruisers, SH or not carry NUC signals. And I agree that simply lighting the hell out of your boat should in fact have much the same effect... sure does for me when I see a strange, well lit object at sea: I avoid it!

Cheers,

Jim
I like the flood lighting option. Canadian and American ColRegs mods for inland already allow for decklighting to improve for visibility of large ships.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 04:54   #159
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,887
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Yes, I doubt if any cruisers, SH or not carry NUC signals. And I agree that simply lighting the hell out of your boat should in fact have much the same effect... sure does for me when I see a strange, well lit object at sea: I avoid it!

Cheers,

Jim
Hi Jim....the reason I brought up the NUC for hove to solo sailors was to introduce a logical solution that is practical and LEGALLY UNAMBIGUOUS.

The meaning of NUC signal within COLREGS is that ALL other vessels should keep clear!

Your previous post exactly describes my opinion of helping S'handers and I don't think hoisting a string of Two All Round vertical Red , or two round black shapes where it can best be seen .... is a problem before hoving to and taking a nap.

I also am surprised that cruisers don't carry emergency NUC signals... I always have had something ready to hoist up the flag halyard
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 05:18   #160
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
I don't think a strobe would work. White strobes already represent either buoys or a vessel in distress, red and green strobes, I hope we know what they mean, yellow strobes are taken and blue for government vessels.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Your absolutely right brain drain.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 05:27   #161
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,241
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
What seems truly remarkable is the achievement of near universal consensus amongst a large array of seafaring nations, but with enough discretion left to individual states to fashion their own enforcement regimens.
Even several enforcement regimes. Within a days' sailing of where our family boat is we have to deal with six different sets of regulations. And we must by law have the full text of all of them on board. Luckily they get published in one handy volume, which you then put somewhere on your boat and then forget...

There are often a lot of local exceptions and additions to the colregs, and you should be aware of them.
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 05:58   #162
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Avoiding the pedantic discussion for a moment, I'd like to consider the case of a single hander needing desperately to sleep displaying the NUC signals when in the open ocean. Apparently this contravenes the colregs, and we know that some folks believe simply that he shouldn't be there... but looking at it realistically, what harm is done? The worst seems to be that an approaching vessel avoids the NUC chap when he should not have to. Since this should only involve a small course change, there is little to complain about. "No harm, no foul" and all that. It seems to me that given the choice between NUC and NOT NUC, given that the SHer is going to sleep anyway, the NUC presents the least likelyhood of a disasterous encounter. Yes, it isn't according to the rules, and yes, it means that the SHer is selfishly causing additional (but very small) risk to others, but in the great scheme of things it seems trivial to me.

Consider that at this time... any time of day or y ear... there are some 10 or 20 large bulk carriers drifting off of the east coast of Australia, displaying NUC lights and AIS signals. They are not in distress, their engines and steering are in good nick, but they are avoiding harbour fees whilst awaiting their turn at the coal loader in Newcastle, Gladstone or some other Aussie port. The authorities are well aware of this practice, it obviously contravenes colregs, but nothing iis done about the practice. Compared to this, the SHer seems small potatoes to me.

Any comments?

Jim

Jim I'm a bit surprised about 10-20 ships off the east coast at anytime displaying NUC signals. A quick look on marine traffic shows none at the moment. Where have you experienced this?
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1434023908.253524.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	81.5 KB
ID:	103570
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 06:05   #163
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,741
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Canadian Colregs have modifications.

Some examples
Canada has extensive modifications to the COLREGS:

https://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_l_f1.jsp#a60

The only major nation to have such, and they were specifically permitted by the Convention, specifically for Canada.

This is different from inland rules, which every signatory state is free to determine by itself, according to the terms of the Convention.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 07:01   #164
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

some interesting thoughts on solo sailing and the COLREGS here for you RC
Boldly Go Sailing
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 09:47   #165
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post

Should a solo vessel Hove to for sleep rather than storm conditions exhibit NUC as a warning to other traffic?
No - because they are able to maneuver.


I have been legitimately NUC twice on the same passage. After we took out our transmission by wrapping a small piece of fishing net around the prop in the middle of the Pacific high we are adrift and unable to maneuver for a couple of days.

After we picked up the Westerlies we sailed to the mouth of Juan de Fuca where we spend another day and half adrift in the fog with ocean vessels being warned about us by Tofino traffic.

We did not have the balls (pun intended) or the lights to show that we were NUC.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing, single

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Capri 25 for Single-handed Sailing smo General Sailing Forum 9 06-11-2015 09:27
EU Forbids Single Handed Sailing? hpeer Seamanship & Boat Handling 14 08-06-2014 11:51
Single Handed Sailing tonytheboat General Sailing Forum 18 02-10-2012 04:15
How to Setup Your Sailboat for Single-Handed Sailing canadianllama Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 40 11-09-2011 10:24
Sailing spinnakers single-handed Stede General Sailing Forum 2 30-05-2008 22:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.