AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

[mausgras]

"We need to put to bed, the notion that yachts of one country are not subject to regulations of another"

As already pointed out this thread is not about the merit of AIS or the legality of the proposed regulation. It is about the purpose of the regulation and its manner of implementation.

A new regulation has been proposed that will have a significant impact on the foreign yachting industry and the local economies that depend on it.

It is the claimed purpose of the proposed regulation, namely to improve safety; and the manner of its implementation without consultation which is being disputed.

At this stage their is little evidence that the proposed new regulations will achieve the claimed aims of improving safety (which I am sure everyone wants) and the significant impact on the foreign cruising industry that is a major contributor to the local economy.

Of most concern is the way it is proposed to implement the regulations. Already the authorities are back pedelling. This is not the first time this has happened and it brings into question the competency of the authorities to administer maritime safety in the region.

Phuket Marine chief plays down 'get AIS connected or go to jail' order

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Aircraft tower controllers world over speak English. Mainly as a result of American air power through and beyond WW2.

Mainly as a result of huge net of British civil air connections before the WW II and immediately after, I dare say...

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Mainly as a result of huge net of British civil air connections before the WW II and immediately after, I dare say...

Both wrong.... it's because of international treaty.

But back to the topic. Nobody disputes the legality of the proposed regulation. I am more interested in the foreign cruising communities reaction.

Do you think making a handful of foreign vessels carrying AIS in waters which contain hundreds of small high speed tourist boats make any significant contribution to navigation or safety?

Will the new regulation, especially the cost of buying or renting a unit or the threat of a severe penalty influence any decision you may make about visiting Thailand. ?

Does the manner in which maritime management appears to be undertaken in Thailand engender confidence in their competencies and encourage you to visit and cruise here?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[downunder]

Originally Posted by mausgras

Both wrong.... it's because of international treaty.

But back to the topic. Nobody disputes the legality of the proposed regulation. I am more interested in the foreign cruising communities reaction.

Do you think making a handful of foreign vessels carrying AIS in waters which contain hundreds of small high speed tourist boats make any significant contribution to navigation or safety?

Will the new regulation, especially the cost of buying or renting a unit or the threat of a severe penalty influence any decision you may make about visiting Thailand. ?

Does the manner in which maritime management appears to be undertaken in Thailand engender confidence in their competencies and encourage you to visit and cruise here?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

In reality it has no affect. I suspect that if not the majority that many of australian cruisers sailing internationally in Asia would most likely have AIS fitted or would be considering it.

Seems to be a reasonably prudent bit of kit thesedays and certainly would stop few visiting Thailand.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by mausgras

Of most concern is the way it is proposed to implement the regulations. Already the authorities are back pedelling. This is not the first time this has happened and it brings into question the competency of the authorities to administer maritime safety in the region.

Phuket Marine chief plays down 'get AIS connected or go to jail' order

I understand how things work in Asia - especially the "provincial governments" where a high level of autonomy is "claimed" by the local authorities.

The reporting on this is so far very sketchy. In particular the second reporting is all over the place in regards to whom might be affected and how this rule might be applied and to whom.

I expect it is difficult to get a straight story and I expect the meeting on the 10th will be interesting albeit maybe not so enlightening. It would be great if someone on the ground would report "the facts" without getting emotional about it.

AN AIS B receiver requirement is a lot different than AIS B transceiver requirement in costs to the boat owner.

It is also a lot different in what can be achieved for improved collision avoidance. I also have a pretty skeptical view of the Thai authority's ability to actually monitor the traffic and sort out any conflicts.

Originally Posted by mausgras

Both wrong.... it's because of international treaty.

But back to the topic. Nobody disputes the legality of the proposed regulation. I am more interested in the foreign cruising communities reaction.

Because this is a regional/provincial declaration I am not sure the legality is established. I get there is a high level of autonomy in provincial governments but this appears to be a local rule applying to Phuket waters.

I don't know Thai Maritime law, and while it may carry provincial authority, but I am skeptical that this rule carries national weight.

Originally Posted by mausgras

Do you think making a handful of foreign vessels carrying AIS in waters which contain hundreds of small high speed tourist boats make any significant contribution to navigation or safety?

Obviously not. Which is why there is a high level of scrutiny being applied and perhaps a fair amount of local outrage.

Originally Posted by mausgras

Will the new regulation, especially the cost of buying or renting a unit or the threat of a severe penalty influence any decision you may make about visiting Thailand. ?

Remember Phuket, while a great destination, is not "Thailand." There are lots of other places to go. So if the law gets enacted and one does not have >$1,000 worth of AIS installed one might give The Andaman and Phuket a miss and go to Langkawi or Pinang. Or spend their time in the gulf of Thailand.

Personally I will eventually get AIS. And personally I want to cruise the Phuket waters. What is annoying is the alarm of maritime safety being offered up as the excuse when clearly there are a lot of other bigger risks in these waters than pleasure yacths hitting ships or each other.

Originally Posted by mausgras

Does the manner in which maritime management appears to be undertaken in Thailand engender confidence in their competencies and encourage you to visit and cruise here?

No. The unilateral decision and the way it is announced clearly indicates that they local authorities do not have a handle on the drivers of safety and are not addressing other equally or more important issues first.

Originally Posted by downunder

In reality it has no affect. I suspect that if not the majority that many of australian cruisers sailing internationally in Asia would most likely have AIS fitted or would be considering it.

Seems to be a reasonably prudent bit of kit thesedays and certainly would stop few visiting Thailand.

it will have a short term effect for sure. If I am mid-cruise and I don't have AIS B adding a >$1,000 bit of kit just to visit Phuket may make a cruiser go elsewhere.

However - Not to cross pollinate but, this is similar to the Aussie fees thread. We can't be too big headed about how much income we cruisers bring to the local economy. Phuket probably has 5 flights an hour bringing tourists in. Even if all visiting yachts stayed away we wouldn't amount to a pimple on a Sumo-wrestlers butt in terms of economic impact.

On a micro level the local boatyards and yachting industry might take a short term hit.

I think the real "victims" here are the large community of local foreigners, many living on fixed income/retirements who live in Thailand because it is cheap. $1,000 boat upgrade is a big budget hit to a lot of these folks.

Eventually most all cruising boats will have AIS B. And if you are installing a receiver only you really oughtta reconsider. Transceiver capability is going to be needed everywhere in the not too distant future.

[Canibul]

Then I'll just buy a broken one on eBay for a few bucks and put it somewhere on the boat. Problem solved.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Then I'll just buy a broken one on eBay for a few bucks and put it somewhere on the boat. Problem solved.

I think the idea is that they can see your blip when you are paying your entry fee.

BTW the fee is $100 higher on weekends.... but their weekends are Friday thru Sunday

[mausgras]

The latest announcement is that you will only need a receiver. Given the excellent 3G mobile phone coverage in the region why do I need to rent or buy a unit when there are several apps I can down load for my phone for free that will do the same job.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by mausgras

The latest announcement is that you will only need a receiver. Given the excellent 3G mobile phone coverage in the region why do I need to rent or buy a unit when there are several apps I can down load for my phone for free that will do the same job.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Which foot stomps the point that this isn't about safety, or if it is it is totally misguided and is ill informed about what AIS does...

There isn't a lot of shipping around Phuket. There are lots of pleasure boats, ferries, fishing boats, charter boats etc.

If everyone has B receive then what the heck is anyone expected to be receiving - LOL...

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by mausgras

The latest announcement is that you will only need a receiver. Given the excellent 3G mobile phone coverage in the region why do I need to rent or buy a unit when there are several apps I can down load for my phone for free that will do the same job.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

You can't get real AIS in a mobile phone. You are getting the web based AIS data relayed from some shore location that may not be near you. Therefore, it will likely not show all AIS "A" targets and probably not all B targets near you.

Also, the data available on the web is liable to be anywhere from 5-30 minutes old. Sometimes even older than that.

There was another thread recently where a boater could not see his own AIS B on ship tracker. It happens a lot.

Web AIS apps should not be used for collision avoidance.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Which foot stomps the point that this isn't about safety, or if it is it is totally misguided and is ill informed about what AIS does...

There isn't a lot of shipping around Phuket. There are lots of pleasure boats, ferries, fishing boats, charter boats etc.

If everyone has B receive then what the heck is anyone expected to be receiving - LOL...

My point exactly. The problem is not with foreign registered boats, which I might add probably spent more than 90% of their time at anchor or in a marina, but with the large domestic fleet that services the island communities and tourist trade.
Its a bit like saying we have a problem with too many mice but if we put a collar on a few cats that will improve things.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Ex-Calif]

So a bit of Googling and reading some of the collisions that have made the media is interesting.

There have been a few high visibility collisions in the Phuket media this year. I could not find any involving visiting yachts.

Trolling the news articles indicates that tourist speedboat to tourist speedboat is a risk with poorly trained and or unlicensed captains.

Jetski to speedboat collisions also make the hit parade with untrained/inexperienced and unlicensed tourists making up this one.

Finally there are reports of speedboat propeller to swimmer events.

Phuket waters are very crowded in-shore and on the beaches. I have witnessed personal injury accidents with parasailers and make it a point to never board any water sport activity where there is a Thai in charge of my safety.

This element of tourism in Phuket in my opinion has always been out of control.

None of the articles I have scanned would have or could have been avoided by anyone having AIS B.

Have a poke around for yourselves.

https://www.google.com/search?q=A1-1...ions+in+phuket

This one is pretty hilarious - The boat driver starts crying and gets his "sentence" reduced from 3-months to get your license renewed...

Chinese tourists hurt in Phuket speedboat crash - eTurboNews.com

Khun Phuripat told a safety meeting of speedboat company representatives last week that he had planned to suspend the speedboat captain for three months after the collision between the jet-ski and the speedboat off Patong.
The man's Ship Licence had expired.

''I told the man he could not drive the boat for three months, and he burst into tears,'' Khun Phuripat said. ''So I reduced the penalty to one month.

''He was still sobbing, so I made it a week. Then his eyes were still very red from all the crying, so I told him to bring his Ship Licence up to date right away.''

[Jaden44]

[QUOTE=mausgras;1622435]
The latest announcement is that you will only need a receiver. ......./QUOTE]

I've searched across the Web for the official press release /announcement that you describe and admit that I can not find it. Can you identify the Web link to this announcement so I can read the whole announcement for myself. If true, then this is a significant softening of the original announcement that was quoted in post #1.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

We need to put to bed, the notion that yachts of one country are not subject to regulations of another

Once inside the territorial water of a country you are subject to its laws. You have the right of innocent passage , but again that is merely based on observance of an international treaty. Notwithstanding the fact that a cruising yacht doodling around a countries coast cannot claim. " innocent passage "

The fact that NZ struck down a law , was more to do with the overarching nature of that law , including detaining vessels etc, rather then the issue of the application of specific safety criteria

But the fact is that no different to Ireland's , and the US Lifejacket laws or the French yacht safety rules, these local laws apply to you once in their waters, whether you holler about your rights or not.

Your boat does not provide you with diplomatic protection as some would think

[mausgras]

[QUOTE=Jaden44;1622642]

Originally Posted by mausgras

The latest announcement is that you will only need a receiver. ......./QUOTE]

I've searched across the Web for the official press release /announcement that you describe and admit that I can not find it. Can you identify the Web link to this announcement so I can read the whole announcement for myself. If true, then this is a significant softening of the original announcement that was quoted in post #1.

The original post in the Phuket News was

All foreign yachts in Phuket ?will have to have AIS system?

And you are right the follow up post a day or so later was a significant backpedalling .... but that is no surprise, it happens all the time, can be found at

http://www.phuketgazette.net/article...822#ad-image-0