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Old 04-09-2014, 23:11   #31
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by mausgras View Post
Given that foreign registered yachts are only a small proportion of the dozens of Thai registered charter boats and thousands of tourist and fishing boats all zooming around the place daily and they are not required to install the units then where is the safety value?
Unless of course some brother-in-law of a top maritime dept official has the exclusive import license for the recomended AIS units.

Follow the money...

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Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
ha ha, thai govt monitoring of AIS - that'll be fun to see in practice. I just got back from there - those in the know might recognise the provenance of my amended motto for the place - 'same same, but worse'.
Yeah - This one is a classic...

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Originally Posted by sobraon View Post
As a side issue those commenting about adjusting AIS warnings to compensate for the local conditions, have have possibly never transited areas like the Singapore Strait. The only way to adjust is to turn all alarms off. When there are more than 300 contacts within a 10 mile range the only warning that is of any use is a very aware watch keeper.
Thailand is hilarious. And this report is typical. Do something about maritime safety. Don't do it to the locals or you will have a demonstration organized in 5 minutes.

Do it to the foreigners because they will sport bitch, buy the AIS from the Governor's cousin and get back to business as usual...

Face it. There are a ton of folks living in the margins in Thailand. Why not screw them over? What are they gonna do? Leave? Most of them are disenfranchised from their home countries anyway and are lucky to have a Thailand where most authorities will turn a blind eye for the right price.

In regards to AIS, safety and traffic? The agencies and governments are not doing this for collision avoidance. They just wanna know where you are...
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Old 05-09-2014, 00:14   #32
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
I am a firm believer & user of AIS. Great here where piracy is nearly unknown. What will be our position when the criminals can pick & choose a victim based on who/what you are and how many boats are near you & where the cops are? Perhaps pick the ambush point. They will also know where you are sleeping. Bet the criminals don't operate AIS.
Perhaps one should display on AIS a well-armed naval vessel to represent one's boat (with one's boat in the photo's background) and classify the vessel as "other" (as in pirate killer.)

I'd like to eventually take a photo of this vessel when it is operating by itself:

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Old 05-09-2014, 00:23   #33
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Perhaps one should display on AIS a well-armed naval vessel to represent one's boat (with one's boat in the photo's background) and classify the vessel as "other" (as in pirate killer.)

I'd like to eventually take a photo of this vessel when it is operating by itself:

Admit it. Laws often put lawful citizens at a major disadvantage to the lawless.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:12   #34
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

By adjusting AIS I meant turn off alarms, not the unit. Of course you don't transit hight traffic areas and not keep proper watch. It's pointless to have alarms and popups on plotters in situations like entering ports or Gibraltar straights.
As far as Thai revenue raising, I'd feel the same if it was any government, Australia, USA, Europe, making a step in the right direction.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:25   #35
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Last time I heard, it was Oz or NZ that tried requiring all foreign yachts to be equipped to local safety standards and that eventually got quashed because, quite simply, foreign vessels transiting national waters are governed by international agreement. And those agreements say you're only required to carry what your own sovereign requires.

For commercial vessels and vessels regularly operating in Thai waters, they'd be subject to Thai regulations. But as we used to say in the Colonies, "I don't care if you're the King if Siam, you're not in charge here."

Either there's a subtlety being missed here, or the Thais will be reminded of this sooner or later.
I assume you are aware that Singapore implemented this same law about 3 years ago. All vessels arriving in Singapore waters are required to be equipped with class B AIS or higher. Not just commercial vessels but also private yachts. Have not yet read or heard of Singapore being challenged on this requirement.

Judy
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:35   #36
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
I assume you are aware that Singapore implemented this same law about 3 years ago. All vessels arriving in Singapore waters are required to be equipped with class B AIS or higher. Not just commercial vessels but also private yachts. Have not yet read or heard of Singapore being challenged on this requirement.

Judy
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:38   #37
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Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
Any westerner crossed the land borders to Thailand may have wondered why people put money notes inside their passports before handing it over to the border control official..
Which border crossing do your have personal experience of? I've yet to see it, either in Thailand or Laos. If anything it seems to have been cleaned up since the coup, illegal traders kicked off the beaches in pattaya and phuket. Also cracking down on visa runs where people stay in the country for years working, this might be something to do with that.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:49   #38
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Last time I heard, it was Oz or NZ that tried requiring all foreign yachts to be equipped to local safety standards and that eventually got quashed because, quite simply, foreign vessels transiting national waters are governed by international agreement. And those agreements say you're only required to carry what your own sovereign requires.

For commercial vessels and vessels regularly operating in Thai waters, they'd be subject to Thai regulations. But as we used to say in the Colonies, "I don't care if you're the King if Siam, you're not in charge here."

Either there's a subtlety being missed here, or the Thais will be reminded of this sooner or later.

We need to put to bed, the notion that yachts of one country are not subject to regulations of another

Once inside the territorial water of a country you are subject to its laws. You have the right of innocent passage , but again that is merely based on observance of an international treaty. Notwithstanding the fact that a cruising yacht doodling around a countries coast cannot claim. " innocent passage "

The fact that NZ struck down a law , was more to do with the overarching nature of that law , including detaining vessels etc, rather then the issue of the application of specific safety criteria

But the fact is that no different to Ireland's , and the US Lifejacket laws or the French yacht safety rules, these local laws apply to you once in their waters, whether you holler about your rights or not.

Your boat does not provide you with diplomatic protection as some would think
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:54   #39
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

So, why not when we're at it: require VHF radio and radar as well as a minimum radar reflection for any vessel larger than a kayak? Also, why not require all oars and paddles to contain radar-reflective materials.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:55   #40
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, why not when there at it: require VHF radio and radar as well as a minimum radar reflection for any vessel larger than a kayak? Also, why not require all oars and paddles to contain radar-reflective materials.

You've been reading the French yacht safety rules I see

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Old 05-09-2014, 02:05   #41
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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You've been reading the French yacht safety rules I see

Dave
No, but I'm "in tune" with the times. Hahahahaha!
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:12   #42
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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I assume you are aware that Singapore implemented this same law about 3 years ago.
Not quite the same, it seems... Foreign yachts can clear in to Singapore, stay in the marina, clear out and proceed to sea without a transponder. AIS or HARTS transponder is required for any other movements within the harbour, though. Thai rules look less practical for visitors indeed.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:19   #43
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

Announce in haste, retract in leisure.
Once again the Thai authorities make sweeping announcements and then decide to have consultations after the event.
The previous changes to terms of stay were changed and retracted and re announced so many times I lost count.
Predictably, except apparently by the Thai authorities, the local yachting industry is somewhat pertubed by the newly announced rules to make AIS compulsory for a small section of the yachting industry which is not where the problem of unmanaged traffic lies.

The criticism has been so swift this time that the following has been announced

NOTICE OF MEETING;
Dear All,
Sub: 1) All foreigner boats to install the Automatic Identification System (AIS)
2) Meeting for comments on the draft Marine Regulations for the Thai registered boats, Type of Employment: Passenger ship carrying above 25 passengers to install the Automatic Identification System (AIS except Long-tailed boats.
Marine Phuket Branch office would like to invite people on Marine Industries to attend their meeting on 10 Sep, 2014 /02.00pm. at Royal Phuket Marina.
Who want to attend this meeting, please send the Acceptance Attendance to my e-mail: porntip@porntip-logistics.com or Fax: 076-513230
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:51   #44
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

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Originally Posted by mausgras View Post
Announce in haste, retract in leisure.
Once again the Thai authorities make sweeping announcements and then decide to have consultations after the event.
The previous changes to terms of stay were changed and retracted and re announced so many times I lost count.
Predictably, except apparently by the Thai authorities, the local yachting industry is somewhat pertubed by the newly announced rules to make AIS compulsory for a small section of the yachting industry which is not where the problem of unmanaged traffic lies.

The criticism has been so swift this time that the following has been announced

NOTICE OF MEETING;
Dear All,
Sub: 1) All foreigner boats to install the Automatic Identification System (AIS)
2) Meeting for comments on the draft Marine Regulations for the Thai registered boats, Type of Employment: Passenger ship carrying above 25 passengers to install the Automatic Identification System (AIS except Long-tailed boats.
Marine Phuket Branch office would like to invite people on Marine Industries to attend their meeting on 10 Sep, 2014 /02.00pm. at Royal Phuket Marina.
Who want to attend this meeting, please send the Acceptance Attendance to my e-mail: porntip@porntip-logistics.com or Fax: 076-513230
You just hove to have lived it to understand it...

Common sense would dictate that you look at evidence to determine where maritime safety falls down. Then establish measures to address the biggest gaps.

Apparently unlighted longtails are not a problem...

Like someone told me a long time ago. What is "common" in the west is rarely common in the east. Ergo there is a very big difference in what defines common sense...
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:59   #45
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Re: AIS now compulsory for foreign yachts in Thailand

This thread has only been alive three days. The post is NOT about the pros and cons of AIS. Please read the original post and the official public statement again. The relevant part of the statement (as it applies to us cruisers), is extracted and reads as follows:
Phuripat Teerakulpisit, director of the Phuket Marine Office, said……. he will also explain in detail (on 10 September) … how the regulation will be applied and to which boats.

As I understand it, the Thai proposal for vessels operating in Thai waters to be fitted with an AIS (transponder) has been promoted several times previously. On those occasions, the AIS proposal was specifically directed at commercial fishing vessels, the numerous high speed day-tripper speedboats, sailing vessels on charter and commercial sailing vessels carrying paying passengers. No doubt all will be revealed and clarified at the meeting to be held on 10-September.

To date, I have not read that mum and dad cruisers sailing their foreign flagged vessels have been targeted and thereafrter would be required to purchase or rent an AIS transponder as a prerequisite to cruising West Coast Thai waters. Please note that vessels sailing in the Gulf of Thailand have not been targeted. More evidence that only specific vessels in a s[pecific area of Thai waters have been targeted.

Everyone needs to relax and wait patiently to hear the outcome of the September-10 meeting. The Phuket marine business lobby is powerful lobby group and I’m sure they will promote a positive position that benefits our membership. I'm expecting that there will be a positive outcome. And for those interested , my boat is fitted with an AIS transponder. Hang loose brothers!
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