2013 Insurance Premiums

[alaskasail]

Is there a difference in rates and requirements for "registered" boats versus "documented" boats?

I've never been able to insure just for liability so I would be interested in that.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by alaskasail

Is there a difference in rates and requirements for "registered" boats versus "documented" boats?

I've never been able to insure just for liability so I would be interested in that.

Boat US will issue a liability only policy. They quoted me around $500 a year for a 42 footer (although I don't think the size is really that much of an issue when it is for liability only).

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by Gelfling

1) The essence of insurance, is profit. Or nobody would be in this business. ........

3) do you have any further info on how to do this legally. I am sure that a marina isn't going to take my 'word' that I 'self insure' and everything will be taken care of in the event of an accident. I like this idea...but not sure how to accomplish this. Please advise.

Sounds like you may have to change to a less litigious country?

Although, thinking back, we did spend a few nights in marinas in St Augustine, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm beach without insurance, so apparently you can do it in the USA as well.

The procedure is to cancel your insurance, pay nothing, keep a few $$ aside, sail on, be very careful and pay for any damage you cause. It's just common sense and good manners. Isn't it?

The Bumfuzzles had some document outlining their method of self-insurance for some bureaucratic marina....

[callistov42]

We have been with Lloyds through Blue Water Insurance for 10+ years. Boat is US documented but has lived much of the past 12 years in St Martin. No hurricane box, coverage everywhere (including Cuba, Haiti and Columbia), $160,000 agreed on hull value, coverage on dinghy, $500m liability. We had no increase at this years renewal $3800/yr.

[davefromoregon]

How much liability do you all have on your policy? 100k, 300k, more

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

How much liability do you all have on your policy? 100k, 300k, more

My marina requires $300k in liability.

[Scott Berg]

No increase here the past 4 years...

[colemj]

Other than one expected increase for changing our coverage area, ours has been the same premium for the past 4 years.

Mark

[Lake-Effect]

I found a very large range of prices and coverage when we went shopping for boat insurance - like 300% difference. So... get several quotes if you think your rate is not reasonable.

caveat - we have a small boat that could be completely replaced without maxing out a charge card, so we don't fear boat loss so much. Our club requires liability insurance; that's not so expensive.

The essence of insurance is to share/mitigate risk; all of us paying a little means that a few (which might include us) won't have to pay alot.

[zboss]

ours requires 500K.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

but that is the essence of insurance - sharing the risk.

Or do you want others to pay for your mistakes, while you don't reciprocate.

Why not just self insure? Plenty do it and that way, you only pay for your own mistakes. It has the added benefit of making you more responsible.

This is exactly what insurance is about. You share the risk with others when the risk is too large to pay yourself. They break it down into groups of "similar" boaters. Crashing your boat frequently is only one way to shift groups but there are many others (boat type, location, age, etc.). The fact that a company wants to earn a profit margin in the process doesn't change that.

You can self insure to a large degree by limiting yourself to a liability policy. That basically means if you run the boat up on the rocks, it's your problem. If you smash someone elses boat, your insurance pays for thier boat repairs.

Assuming you are talking about marinas wanting proof of insurance, it's usually liability that they are concerned with.

It is possible to fully self insure but it's highly impractical. Basically, you need to set aside enough money to cover the worst case senario and then document it. By the time you tie up $300k and the lawyer fees to draw up the documents, it's far cheaper to just pay for insurance.

Ours jumped like 50% and they chaulked it up to hurricane sandy. This is the bull$%@ part of it. Our boat is well outside the hurricane zone, so it is not at any significant risk due to hurricanes and it's not logical to group us with them. Of course the system has a built in method to avoid people switching as you have to dump $5-800 into a survey plus the cost of correcting anything they deem to be an issue. Unless there is a huge reduction in insurance premiums, it's not worth insurance hopping.

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by Gelfling

I just received a quote from my boat insurer and I noticed that there was a big increase over last year. I have not had any files claimed against my policy and have paid it timely and whole year was paid in full at the start of each contract. I sent an email to my carrier and asked.

"I just received my paper copy of this quote in the mail.

Can you please advise me, why is there a 25% increase in my premium this year over last?"

The response was:

"Unfortunately, there was a rate increase across the board due to the number of catastrophic losses incurred by the insurance companies the last couple of years.

This is the best rate we can offer based on the coverages provided."

Is everyone else seen these "across the board" insurance increases?
Any suggestions on insurance companies that I can contact for simple coastal navigation in US waters?
Is there an insurance provider that will cover just inside the Chesapeake? (I don't have any plans to cruise outside of it in the coming year)

I don't think I want to accept the explanation "you need to pay for the mistakes of others".

Insurance is shared risk- there is no real way to "avoid the mistakes of others". the challenge is to find an insuring company that compartmentalizes various regions, and doesn't penalize equitably across the board. For example, one of the companies we represent minimized premium increases for Sandy for those west of the Rockies.

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Get a liability only policy from Progressive so you don't have to pay for all the boats wrecked by Hurricane Sandy.

Bad advice, unless one has VERY deep pockets- a marine insurance policy covers much more than just the vessel.

Originally Posted by alaskasail

Is there a difference in rates and requirements for "registered" boats versus "documented" boats?

I've never been able to insure just for liability so I would be interested in that.

No- the type of registration you have on your vessel has nothing to do with the insurance coverages.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

This is exactly what insurance is about. You share the risk with others when the risk is too large to pay yourself. They break it down into groups of "similar" boaters. Crashing your boat frequently is only one way to shift groups but there are many others (boat type, location, age, etc.). The fact that a company wants to earn a profit margin in the process doesn't change that.

You can self insure to a large degree by limiting yourself to a liability policy. That basically means if you run the boat up on the rocks, it's your problem. If you smash someone elses boat, your insurance pays for thier boat repairs.

Assuming you are talking about marinas wanting proof of insurance, it's usually liability that they are concerned with.

It is possible to fully self insure but it's highly impractical. Basically, you need to set aside enough money to cover the worst case senario and then document it. By the time you tie up $300k and the lawyer fees to draw up the documents, it's far cheaper to just pay for insurance.

Ours jumped like 50% and they chaulked it up to hurricane sandy. This is the bull$%@ part of it. Our boat is well outside the hurricane zone, so it is not at any significant risk due to hurricanes and it's not logical to group us with them. Of course the system has a built in method to avoid people switching as you have to dump $5-800 into a survey plus the cost of correcting anything they deem to be an issue. Unless there is a huge reduction in insurance premiums, it's not worth insurance hopping.

Very well stated, and factually correct.

[vtsailguy]

Originally Posted by Don L

Mine hasn't changed much. I have Markel though IMS.

^ Same

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Insurance is shared risk- there is no real way to "avoid the mistakes of others". the challenge is to find an insuring company that compartmentalizes various regions, and doesn't penalize equitably across the board. For example, one of the companies we represent minimized premium increases for Sandy for those west of the Rockies.

That's still a pretty big "compartment" isn't it?

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Bad advice, unless one has VERY deep pockets- a marine insurance policy covers much more than just the vessel.

Can you explain further? Why is it bad advice to go with liability only? Assuming one is willing to accept the risk to one's own vessel, what's wrong with this approach?

[Pau Hana]

Whether or not an insuring company chooses to increase rates in a given area (based on losses) is strictly up to that company. At the same time, the companies are well aware that the days of remaining with 1 carrier for years on end is over, and clients are always shopping their premium to ensure they are getting the best combination of premium and coverage. It's much less expensive for a company to retain clients vice attract new ones...

On the liability only coverage- as a vessel owner, you are responsible for the damages you can cause to others- hence the Protection and Indemnity (liability) coverage. You are also responsible fur any fuel related spill coming from your boat, as well as wreckage removal if the boat sinks and is recoverable. These coverages typically are not included in a liability only policy. These are coverages that are paid "in addition to" any liability payments made on your behalf.

IMO, if you own a vessel of the type that causes you to post on a forum like this one, going thru the steps to ensure the vessel is properly insured is the responsible thing to do. This is from my viewpoint as a liveaboard (52' PT Overseas yachtfisher).