Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-03-2016, 09:07   #1
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

You ever watch the work that gets done in the yard and think about the cost/value of it? I would actually like to get some of my boat work done by the yard, but here is my story:

The past week I painted my boat bottom in prep of launching. I carried out the work over 3 days consisting of:
- 6 hours to scrape the loose sections, lightly sand the bottom, prime areas than were down to the barrier coat
- 4 hours to tape and apply 2 coats of paint to most of the hull
- 4 hours to move the stands and apply paint to those areas and the nooks and areas that could not do well while using the large roller
I used almost 3 gallons of paint and the material costs including consumables was at least $750.

Yesterday while working on my boat I watched the yard bottom paint the boat next to me, which just happens to be the same model. I know from the yard labor rates that they charge $688 labor plus supplies for this. The way they did it was:
- scape the loose sections (15 minutes)
- tape
- apply 1 coat and done

Total time sent at the boat, 2 hours (I was there the whole time)! And they only used 1 gallon of paint, but it was the same color as what the boat had so in the end couldn't really tell if sections got missed.

While I can see $688 labor for the work I did (and the yard probably would have been faster than a fat man with bad knees doing the work), I have a hard time accepting $688 labor for the work I watched them do!

And the yard makes a big deal about owners using a tarp and catching all the paint chips and not to drip bottom paint onto the ground due to the EPA testing the storm drains (this actually added a lot of time to my doing my boat). Did the yard guy use a tarp, not a chance! In fact the trash can be used and let next to the boats had paint running out of the bottom of it later on.

So due to a bad knee I was thinking of having them wax my boat this year. The charge for that would be $602. But I've seen them wax other boats and I just don't think I'm going to be able to talk myself into it.
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 10:17   #2
Registered User
 
PamlicoTraveler's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Depends
Boat: SB 43' Cutter
Posts: 679
Images: 13
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Moral of the story is it might be cheaper for you to get a knee replacement.
__________________

__________________
The next best thing to playing and winning
is playing and losing ...
[I]
PamlicoTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 10:31   #3
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

They must know about my knee because when I asked they said it would be $645 to wax my boat.

So this morning I went to the doctor and got a shot in my knee
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 10:54   #4
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

IMHO some boatyards are plain ripoff, some are excellent. And even worse, the quality of work varies from plainly ignorant to top shelf.

Somehow the criminal ones tend to charge as much as the genuine ones. So you cannot tell who is who judging from the figure on the ticket.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 10:56   #5
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

My friends boat is next to that boat in post 1, he now has black bottom paint splatters on his boat. Wait till the yard finds out and charges him.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 12:03   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,387
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Hi SB1,

The majority of the jobs I've done on my boat I think I did a much better job than I would have gotten in a yard. Took me a lot longer but like you, I did a lot more and took more care than the average boat yard would have.

I could probably find a yard to do a job with equal or better quality to what I would achieve myself but I probably couldn't afford their rates.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 12:23   #7
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Orbital buffer ($23.98):

10" Random Orbital Buffer - Walmart.com

Meguiar's Boat and RV Cleaner Wax, Liquid, 16 fl oz ($11.31):

Meguiar's Boat and RV Cleaner Wax, Liquid, 16 fl oz - Walmart.com


Could use separate polish and wax.
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2016, 12:28   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Three Sisters's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 427
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler View Post
Moral of the story is it might be cheaper for you to get a knee replacement.
You caught my funny bone with that one.
__________________
Three Sisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 02:56   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

I did most of mine until I got a bit older and at 69 ripped a shoulder tendon and after a couple of screws and pt found it very difficult to do the work. Given that I got a couple of different bids for the work and a list of materials. Then I did a lot of supervision myself and some of it I could do but the arm is just as strong as it use to be and would wear out quickly.
Of course we are in a foreign country but still when we were in the USA we never had anyone work on the boat until we had an estimate and what it included.
The contract we worked with this year told us a story about a local building contractor who has a boat and when we got the bid for his work we told our contractor he would not pay those rates as he could hire day laborers cheaper to which our contractor told him the rate is the rate and his workers not only scrape and polish but repair gel coat and a variety of other specialized things day laborers have not idea - ie they are skilled craftsmen.
But in our opinion the key is what did you sign up and you must supervior what is being done and correct them if they don't do what you want.
__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 04:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

There are a lot of variables here... yards have to make money and cover the real estate, insurance, admin costs... electricity and so on. They have a big nut and they make it on rental of slips, winter storage and yard work.

Some yards are more expensive than others....Brewers being one of them.

I've watched a yard to work on my engine... which I had to redo because the part failed... not their fault. It was not difficult work.... took me probably longer... but not much but actually made me think I paid a lot. But since I had no real options I had them do the work, paid the dockage and learned.

I don't do some work because it's not worth the stress on my aging body... bottom painting... waxing. I pay too much for these simple jobs but when I do them I suffer for weeks from assorted health effects... and that's just not worth it.

I want to avoid breathing boat yard polluted air as much as possible... and so I will pay for some things. The yard I store does is in NYS and the state doesn't permit... or so I am told people to do their bottoms for environmental reasons. Who knows... no one seems to paint their bottom in that yard. They do an OK job.... but no racing bottoms as far as I can tell. And I don't race so it doesn't matter. I clean the prop etc.

If I need something like a battery removed I pay a strong youngster on the side.

I would never pay them to varnish or do electrical installs... or plumbing... and even most engine work like winterizing the engine.

I've done most of this and I just accept that some things I will be paying for dearly/ The yard is there to make money and if they don't make money from you... at all... you are a losing them money!
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 07:06   #11
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

I've found that I do better work than most of the yeards I've paid. certainly none of them are capable of thinking. If they run into a problem they don't fix it or call and say "hey there's a problem" they just work over it.

despite being 64 I still do almost everything myself
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 07:22   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,515
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

To polish and wax your boat properly in order to insure a lasting result, it will take you a week or two and $200 in materials and $250 for a proper polisher and $50-$100 for buffing bonet. It's a lot of work. The yard is only offering you the short cut version for $600 where they do a one step waxing which will last less than a couple of months.

You need to remove the oxidation via polishing prior to waxing with two to three coats of 3m marine paste wax. Lots of work, but your results will be impressive.
__________________
Kenomac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 07:27   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
To polish and wax your boat properly in order to insure a lasting result, it will take you a week or two and $200 in materials and $250 for a proper polisher and $50-$100 for buffing bonet. It's a lot of work. The yard is only offering you the short cut version for $600 where they do a one step waxing which will last less than a couple of months.

You need to remove the oxidation via polishing prior to waxing with two to three coats of 3m marine paste wax. Lots of work, but your results will be impressive.
You need a good substrate/gelcoat to wax! I am fine with annual yard waxing.... I don't expect it to last more than a few months... it's a sort of protect that mostly wears off... no biggie. I pay $500 and save my back... Good enough for me... Pic is of hull at 25 yrs
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1070010.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	436.8 KB
ID:	121323  
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 07:42   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
There are a lot of variables here... yards have to make money and cover the real estate, insurance, admin costs... electricity and so on. .............
Too many people forget this or don't realize it in the first place. If you've ever owned or managed a business, this is something you will understand.

It's been said that typically a business has to charge the customers about three times what they are paying the employees to make a decent profit. Of course it depends on the business but that's a good place to start.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2016, 09:33   #15
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Yard Work Costs & Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Too many people forget this or don't realize it in the first place. If you've ever owned or managed a business, this is something you will understand.

It's been said that typically a business has to charge the customers about three times what they are paying the employees to make a decent profit. Of course it depends on the business but that's a good place to start.
For boat yards it's even higher. Not only because typically the land is far more expensive, but also because every employee in most boat yards have to have Jones Act or Longshore coverage not simple workers comp. I haven't run the numbers in years, but IIRC Longshore coverage runs about three times what workers comp does per employee. Combine this with operating around heavy machinery, power tools, etc and the cost per employee excluding labor payment is very high.
__________________

__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SSB Radio Check & On-Air Evaluation Net (and DSC test calls) ka4wja Marine Electronics 15 09-12-2014 13:03
Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation SS Little-Devil Monohull Sailboats 31 24-02-2012 19:35
Boat Evaluation - Here Goes - First Post Lyttlebyrd Monohull Sailboats 14 01-08-2009 10:49
Used Cat evaluation checklist. Mark424 Multihull Sailboats 8 10-12-2007 07:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.