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Old 19-02-2007, 17:00   #16
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Sail with the furler for awile before t you do anything as foolish as getting rid of it. That would be a giant step backward.
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Old 19-02-2007, 18:09   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperaris
I have just tested it on both Internet Explorer and Firefox and it works at least as well as my gib furling gear.
Sorry, if it sounded like I'm complaining, I'm not, but just trying to be informative. It must be my IE program. I can get it when I use Netscape but this is what I get on IE.
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Old 19-02-2007, 20:34   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
Sorry, if it sounded like I'm complaining, I'm not, but just trying to be informative. It must be my IE program. I can get it when I use Netscape but this is what I get on IE.
Please do not apologise.
That was a tease.
I am thankful you are telling me.
And yes it must be your IE program or something in your setup.
Like maybe your are not a faithful enough Microsoft consumer?
Perhaps you're running Red Hat Linux? Heresy!
Or Mac OS X? Blasphemy!
I suppose it would be too stupid to ask if you can get other sites with your IE
But can I ask what version is your IE?
And in Tools -> Internet Preferences->Security do you have it setup for all Internet or maybe something more restricted like intranet?

If you find all this too boring there is no need to bother.
Sailing is more interesting
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Old 19-02-2007, 23:44   #19
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Skipperaris,

I don't need to be spanked like that for my small point. The BB post I linked to described a furler that had worn through the wire of the stay, and the damage couldn't be seen because the foil hid it. It had nothing to do with swages. But he did lose his mast. A perfectly pertinent post for someone who is considering dispensing with his furler altogether (and RH, do what makes you happy. If that means hanked-on sails, more power to you).

You obviously are very experienced, but I don't see anything in the post where you are obstensibly responding to the content of mine (you have me quoted) that addresses anything I wrote, except a mini-rant in response to my expressing a vague mistrust of a system that can fail or cause damage (and then hide that damage) to standing rigging, and certainly nothing that would help rebel heart make his decision.

I thought the meaning of my (rather humble little) post was perfectly clear. Did you read the linked post?
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Old 20-02-2007, 01:32   #20
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Calm down thar Cap'nJeff!

We can't learn anything here without a little debate. Everyone is entitled to a civil opinion. I didn't see anything inflammatory (spanking) about Skipperaris's post. He was just expressing his opinion and other possible causes for failure.

And I'm sure the quality of a furler on a McGreggor isn't the best out there, not to mention McG's were not meant to have a full time standing rig. They are more of a trailer sailor where the mast goes up and down with every launch. In which, the owner should have noticed a problem. That's what inspections are for.

A McG is a bad example of a true sailboat. The life lines on my and most other boats here are larger then the stays of a McG. On top of that, the parts on a good furler that rub against the stay should be plastic or some other sacrificial material.

If the furler on rebel heart's boat has been up for this many years I would think a good inspection for worn parts and a new forestay would suffice, seeing how he's taking it down for some repairs anyway.

I lean more to the safety of individuals, especially single-handing, and for someone to replace a furler with a hank on seems down grading. That's unless one has a young surefooted crew hand to do the work of fighting down a genoa.

I've had a pretty good system of doing it myself but I still can't keep the thing out of the water without starting up the motor and heading straight into the wind.

And if rebel heart wants to go back to the old ways, that's his choice and more power to him. We're just expressing our opinions, not telling him what to do!
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Old 20-02-2007, 04:05   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJeff
Skipperaris,

You obviously are very experienced, but I don't see anything in the post where you are obstensibly responding to the content of mine (you have me quoted) that addresses anything I wrote, except a mini-rant in response to my expressing a vague mistrust of a system that can fail or cause damage (and then hide that damage) to standing rigging, and certainly nothing that would help rebel heart make his decision.

I thought the meaning of my (rather humble little) post was perfectly clear. Did you read the linked post?
I stand corrected CaptainJeff. My posting was a jumble.

My mini-rant was really meant to be about that linked post which I did read with interest until I realised that it was a contrived alarmist scenario, not something that really happened. Quoting you was to point at it not to spank you.

In fact I agree with you that there may be hidden damage under the furler which is why I advised a dismantling and thorough inspection of the furler. This part was addressed at Rebel Heart who said he was taking his mast down for maintenance.

*sigh* when I grow up I may learn to say what I mean
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Old 21-02-2007, 20:07   #22
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skipperaris,

You are very gracious to offer an admission of (well, nothing more serious than vagueness, as it turns out— lol) followed by a calm explanation of your thinking. I took your comments under my inserted quoted material to be directed at me, not the linked poster. Perhaps I was rash in that conclusion, & I allowed myself to feel indignant.

Pouring oil on the waters, eh? That's not how to kindle a good fight.


P.S.— as I understand the linked poster, he is claiming that this was a true event. From where do you get the idea that it is "a contrived alarmist scenario, not something that really happened"? Maybe I'm missing something here.
*** *** ***

Delmarry,

I've re-read my post, and can find no place where I've been uncivil. I don't accept any accusation of incivility. Well, unless it comes from skipperaris, in which case he'll have a sincere and humble apology from me.

Is disagreeing with your (transparently veiled) accusation uncivil of me?

Some of your post I find impertinent to my point, and serves to paint me in an unjustifiably unfavorable light:

Quote:
Delmarry, he say:
And I'm sure the quality of a furler on a McGreggor isn't the best out there, not to mention McG's were not meant to have a full time standing rig. They are more of a trailer sailor where the mast goes up and down with every launch. In which, the owner should have noticed a problem. That's what inspections are for.
rebel heart's rigging stays up, and a permanent headstay can't readily be inspected. Don't take my word for it: skipperaris says so, and he's a pretty nice guy with a valid point here.

The linked poster doesn't say what brand of furler he has; assuming it was a factory model is unwarranted. It's the process of a faulty furler chewing into the stay I was commenting about, and solely to illustrate the maxim more complicated systems means more to potentially go wrong, which spoke directly to rebel heart original post. The thickness of the stay can't prevent the same result, though it can delay it. You're observations about the designed use of the MacGreggor are correct, as far as they go; but again, not my point.

Quote:
Delmarry, he say:
On top of that, the parts on a good furler that rub against the stay should be plastic or some other sacrificial material.
Are you suggesting that there are poorly-built furlers out there that don't have plastic or other soft material that comes into contact w/ the stay, and therefore make this more than just a hypothetical scenario? If so, thank-you for supporting my point. And as long as you've let the cat out of the bag, don't keep us in ignorance:we need to know brand names! Which furlers should be avoided?

Quite a tempest in a teapot for such an innocuous little observation, don't you think?
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Old 22-02-2007, 02:46   #23
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CaptainJeff

You ask me so I must answer.

I got the idea this was contrived because the original posting was from Sailboatowners.com who are running this forum and the posting is in the form of a question in the second person not as a statement in the first person.

But I have gone back to this thread and yes once again you are right. Further down there is Bob reporting this happened to him.

So here is another sprinkling of oil. :-))

BTW what is the weather like in your part of the world at the moment. Here in Greece we are having an extended summer instead of a winter.
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Old 22-02-2007, 15:16   #24
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Furler

Build your own furler. It only takes a day and about $100 worth of material.You'll end up with a much simpler and tougher unit than most commercialy built ones . You can check the stay from time to time ,in a calm harbour ,every few years if you are worried, for far less trouble than changiing headsails at sea
Mine has been up for decades and three trips accross the Pacific with no problems.
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Old 23-02-2007, 12:15   #25
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Here's a pfd. that might make an interesting read........................._/)
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Old 25-02-2007, 12:19   #26
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Skipperaris,

Yes, the mods there often begin threads themselves to stimulate activity. No foul there, friend.

A mild winter is a blessing for sailors. Here it's typical unsettled transition from winter to spring: lows rolling in from NNW, but usu. petering out by Point Conception/Santa Barbara, and not touching the greater LA basin, where I am. That leaves me looking out my window at work of Fridays, checking to see if the leaves on the trees are rustling…


The 422 looks to be a comfortable liveaboard/charter platform. Separate double berths in the quarters, or the huge master?
*** *** ***

Demarry,

Very good article.
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Old 25-02-2007, 14:54   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJeff
Skipperaris,

The 422 looks to be a comfortable liveaboard/charter platform. Separate double berths in the quarters, or the huge master?
Yes my 422 is lovely especially with the many little improvements I have made to the original. Simple things like swapping the engine access doors port to starboard, adding floors to some lockers that are built under the seats and lots of other things that I have now got used to so much that it is difficult to recall. My most recent improvement (just finished) was adding an extra support (stanchion/column) for the guard rails. The four provided did not feel adequate. It feels much better now.

And while talking about guard rails, I have stripped the original plastic sheath off and have passed the bare wire in an 10x8 mm nylon (or is it teflon? ) tube. It feels better as a handhold and the fender lines like it too.

Erato was bought as a charter yacht so yes she has two double berths aft. I have never been in one with a master cabin.
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:26   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I have a Hans Christian cutter with a staysail (w/boom) and yankee on a furl. I'm planning on yanking the furling gear, and just going with a hanked on setup instead.
(I know this is an old post) but I was wondering if you had tossed your jib furling system and whether you were satisfied with the results.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:26   #29
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Up until we were around 55 years old, hanked on sails were our choice; just allows you more options to match sails to conditions.

Now in our 60s, furlers are the ONLY way to go!
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:49   #30
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Frankly, and to be blunt, I think you are crazy to think about giving up a furling headsail.

A furling mainsail is something to think about. We had one on our old boat and hated it. We have one on our new boat and think it's preferable to a regular slab-reefing main. It costs us performance.

But a furling headsail is not subject to that performance cost. The cost is less, and the gain is more, which makes furling headsails a no-brainer. I have never known a cruiser to prefer a hanked-on one. Some things to consider:

1. You can reef a furling headsail. You can't reef a hanked-on one. Do you really want to go up to the foredeck in rough weather (yikes!) to change a headsail, instead of just rolling it in? A furling headsail is equal to two or three different hanked on ones.

2. You can hoist a storm jib over a furled-away gennie ("galesail" and that ilk)

3. You can also rig a removeable inner forestay for a storm jib, which is even better since you get the center of effort back to better balance with your storm trisail.

In my opinion, a hanked-on headsail is positively dangerous, and gives you zero performance advantage. It's one thing to crawl up to the mast in rough weather to reef a main -- the mast is near the center of the boat and the safest place to be on deck outside of the cockpit. It's entirely another thing to crawl up to the foredeck in rough weather. Why would you ever take such a risk if you didn't have to?

In sum, I don't know why you would even think about it. Furling headsails are the best thing since sliced bread.
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