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Old 05-02-2016, 15:52   #91
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Sometimes I enjoy the tit for tat.
Absolutely! How boring this world would be if we were all clones!!!
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Old 05-02-2016, 16:44   #92
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Absolutely! How boring this world would be if we were all clones!!!
Often I even learn something. Life would be boring if you know everything, I certainly don't. I enjoy those that actually know what they a talking about not those full of bull s&@t
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Old 05-02-2016, 17:49   #93
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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My heart is broken...

But you have misconstrued my post, I fear. My point is that everyone has some prejudices about boats that influence their buying choices. You said that you had concerns about timber construction that would lead you to not buy such a vessel. To me, this sort of fixed idea is similar to those who would not buy a Hunter,or a Beneteau, or a .... whatever, and that likely this may cause folks to miss out on a good boat for them.

Jim
Too bad you're on ignore Jim, Don won't be able to read your reply.
Oh wait, now he can.
I'm an idiot (and probably on ignore now too) :^)

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Old 05-02-2016, 23:39   #94
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Fiberglass on a wooden boat will let water seep in, but will not let it out again. That boat's time is just about here. Leave it for the original owner.

For your second question, that sounds like a very strong style of construction.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:23   #95
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Maybe a wooden boat is better for a hobbie during retirement rather than a boat to live on and go cruising?
I have often thought there are three people who should own a wooden boat:

1) The Rich Guy. Hedge fund, heart surgeon, Silicon Valley magnate, he turns the boat over to the yard and says, "See you in the spring." Spring rolls around and his boat is in the water at the dock. Two coats of varnish on all the brightwork, perhaps topsides painted, she was surveyed by the yard and every bit of maintenance and repair was completed to the highest standard. They hand him the bill, he hands them a check, and off he sails. Must be nice.

2) The Hippie Boatbuilder. You see him, bearded, barefoot and in a floppy hat, usually in a small boat, sitting aft, facing foreward, his back against the transom, tiller over his shoulder, and the bow eight inches out of the water. Not much of a sailor, but often an excellent craftsman. He enjoys the building more than the sailing and often sells a boat soon after completion and starts a new project.

3). The Full-Time Live-Aboard Cruiser. He has the time and develops the skill to maintain and repair his boat. He loves his boat and enjoys working on her. He regards his labors as similar to maintaining one's house, only much more pleasurable. He intends never to sell his boat so be is untroubled by the cost which he keeps to a relatively low level by doing almost all of the work himself.

I wouldn't discourage someone from getting a sound wood boat...as long as he understands what he's getting into.

Paul
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:17   #96
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Fiberglass on a wooden boat will let water seep in, but will not let it out again. That boat's time is just about here. Leave it for the original owner……...
Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:49   #97
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pirate Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
Definitely NOT from experience with 'Looked after' 40yr old wooden boats..
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:29   #98
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Paul, with all respect, the caveats that you bring up mostly apply to conventional carvel timber boats. With the type of construction under discussion here, most of those worries vanish. The glass and epoxy encapsulation eliminate the worries of worm and dry rot... completely.
I absolutely agree that a well built boat using the WEST system is a completely different animal. When I wrote, I was under the impression that the boat was strip planked and covered on the exterior with glass and a resin of unknown type.

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And you need to note that the OP is a Kiwi, living in New Zealand. Things are kinda different there (and here in Tasmania as well), for there are lots of timber boat enthusiasts, and lots of new construction in timber, both traditional and modern, in progress at any time. This will make the resale of a sound timber boat much easier than in the timber-phobic USA.
Guilty as charged! My comments were based solely on my experience in and observation of the American market where I have seen some boats linger for a long time, sometimes for years. A strong market in NZ for wood boats will be of great benefit to the OP, even if he has to pay a higher price going in.

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It will be interesting to me to see how this plays out....
Yes, it will!

Paul
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:56   #99
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
He's clearly someone who learned the little he thinks he knows by sucking up the west system propaganda.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:04   #100
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
"On the internet. They can't post anything on the internet unless its' true!"

Works for lots of subjects.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:36   #101
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Why don't we leave west system out of this conversation as this does not relate to the boat in question. Almost all Americans seem to think that the gougeons invented epoxy, they did not and are not the authority on the subject, they just introduced it to the US boatbuilding market and wrote a book about how to consume the maximum amount of their product. They are master marketers and fortunately for them they have many malleable followers who seem to be unable to do their own thinking.
The boat in question is simply a strip planked mahogany boat, edge glued with either epoxy which could be one of many brands that have been available in NZ for decades before West came along, or has been suggested, just as likely, resorcinol and almost certainly sheathed with glass in epoxy, again, with whatever brand the builder preffered. What has not been mentioned is the rest of the construction above the sheerline which is most likely all BS1088 marine ply, species unknown and not important as long as its BS1088, this is what most marine plywood manufacturers in the world except the US uses to make a consistent high quality panel (consequently we make the worst marine ply in the world here) Everything above the sheer will also be glassed with epoxy and painted with 2 part polyurethane. This type of construction is as watertight and low maintainance as any fiberglass boat.
A boat built like this (and this is typical kiwi construction) is not "encapsulated" with epoxy and doesn't need to be to be very long lasting. Like every boat of every material it will need a survey by someone who knows the construction, not all surveyors have any actual boatbuilding experience at all and only know what they have read and are only one step ahead of the boat owner so if you are looking at a steel boat find the appropriate surveyor etc. Like all boats if its in good shape and you keep on top of it it will last a long long time.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:42   #102
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
I was wondering the same thing?
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:44   #103
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
I have often thought there are three people who should own a wooden boat:

1) The Rich Guy. Hedge fund, heart surgeon, Silicon Valley magnate, he turns the boat over to the yard and says, "See you in the spring." Spring rolls around and his boat is in the water at the dock. Two coats of varnish on all the brightwork, perhaps topsides painted, she was surveyed by the yard and every bit of maintenance and repair was completed to the highest standard. They hand him the bill, he hands them a check, and off he sails. Must be nice.

2) The Hippie Boatbuilder. You see him, bearded, barefoot and in a floppy hat, usually in a small boat, sitting aft, facing foreward, his back against the transom, tiller over his shoulder, and the bow eight inches out of the water. Not much of a sailor, but often an excellent craftsman. He enjoys the building more than the sailing and often sells a boat soon after completion and starts a new project.

3). The Full-Time Live-Aboard Cruiser. He has the time and develops the skill to maintain and repair his boat. He loves his boat and enjoys working on her. He regards his labors as similar to maintaining one's house, only much more pleasurable. He intends never to sell his boat so be is untroubled by the cost which he keeps to a relatively low level by doing almost all of the work himself.

I wouldn't discourage someone from getting a sound wood boat...as long as he understands what he's getting into.

Paul
I had to laugh at this comment...because in all honesty it is quite accurate. It sounds like an opinion formed over many years of close observation. I especially like the "Hippie Boatbuilder" description...actually spot on! This is a guy that has a lot of fun no matter what he is doing.

As for the rich guy...you nailed that one too.

And my favorite is number 3...I detest work in any form, unless it is fulfilling, satisfying, or contributes to my own lifestyle. And working on my boat satisfies all three requirements. I'm sure this same logic applies to all construction methods, but we are discussing wood boats here.

The reality, at least to me, is that all construction methods require a great deal of work, expense, and effort...especially as a boat gets older...but if you love your boat, and are able to do the work yourself, [or have deep pockets] what does it
matter? A solid, well constructed wood boat is, at the very least, as good as any.
All construction methods have limitations and inherent problems...

Again, the boat the OP is describing sounds as if it has potential. And the Kiwis are masters at that style of construction. If that boat is that old and sound, obviously it has many years left. And glass sheathing on the outside of a strip planked boat is an excellent method of construction.
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Old 06-02-2016, 21:51   #104
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Where on earth did you come across this little gem????????
Around 1970 I enrolled in a fiberglass course in Sheridan College in Toronto, near the airport. The course was a beauty. They had molds for canoes, prams, dinghies and all. We chose the boat we wanted, split up into groups, sprayed the gelcoat into the molds, laid up the mat and roving and turned out boats for ourselves.

That was one of the things the instructors told us: Never cover a wooden boat with fiberglass, it'll let water (vapour) seep in and won't let it out. The boat will rot relatively quickly.

For experience, I have seen lots of wooden boats with hulls covered with fiberglass, all of them seedy with the fiberglass letting go. I can't remember any solid wooden boats with competent fiberglass hull covering. But this is lightweight experience. I don't much go near wooden boats with fiberglass covering.

Wooden boats (on their own, without fiberglass) are OK by me, although I've had one and wouldn't have another. You can replace any piece of wood in a wooden boat, so it can last forever if you keep up with it.
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:16   #105
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Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

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Around 1970 I enrolled in a fiberglass course in Sheridan College in Toronto, near the airport. The course was a beauty. They had molds for canoes, prams, dinghies and all. We chose the boat we wanted, split up into groups, sprayed the gelcoat into the molds, laid up the mat and roving and turned out boats for ourselves.

That was one of the things the instructors told us: Never cover a wooden boat with fiberglass, it'll let water (vapour) seep in and won't let it out. The boat will rot relatively quickly.

For experience, I have seen lots of wooden boats with hulls covered with fiberglass, all of them seedy with the fiberglass letting go. I can't remember any solid wooden boats with competent fiberglass hull covering. But this is lightweight experience. I don't much go near wooden boats with fiberglass covering.

Wooden boats (on their own, without fiberglass) are OK by me, although I've had one and wouldn't have another. You can replace any piece of wood in a wooden boat, so it can last forever if you keep up with it.
Hmm… 1970… presumably the instructors were what, say 40+ (al least 30+) so they learned their stuff in 50's and 60's and were (again presumably) current with the trends on the early 70's. If so, what they told you was pretty accurate given the polyester resins of that time.

Since then, we have moved on and very few people who know anything about wood and resin, would consider using a basic polyester resin and wood in the same sentence

So yes, they were right, but they are not right, right now

An NZ professionally boat (as like the OP is looking at), will have used epoxy resin and either be sheathed with either fibreglass or dynel and I would be willing to bet it is more likely to be dynes.

Any rot found will not be from the construction method, rather from lack of maintenance / care.
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