Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2016, 10:53   #61
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yes, very much American. Proud of it, thank you. As you may be aware, a lot of OPs tend to use terms loosely regarding how their boats are constructed. Should assume little unless the OP clarifies exactly how their boat is constructed. Most folks have no idea about the difference between sheathing vs. saturation techniques or between marine ply and regular plywoods. As far as the old wooden Grand Banks, unless they have been meticulously maintained, they become rotting messes rather quickly. Wooden boats that rely on plywood really need to be constantly maintained or provided an impervious barrier. Better the boat built with solid wood. Most folks nowadays have no skills to maintain wooden boats, and in many cases not even fiberglass boats.
The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 11:27   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 329
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflections101 View Post
Yes, that's correct as far as I know. (The boat's name is Cadiz.)


Yes, that's what it actually said in the advert: "screwed". But his son then told me that it was probably nailed. So maybe the advert is correct after all.


Wow, that's an endorsement! You are not by any chance getting any commission from the agent?

Over the last few days reading all these comments I already flipped so many times from absolutely not wasting any more time on this boat to pretty much rushing in and signing the purchase cheque...
Please remember that when asking a question such as the one you posed you will be getting responses from some folks that have little or no knowledge of the topic, and responses from folks that really know what they are talking about.
Your challenge is to be able to tell the difference. There is no substitute for experience when it comes to buying a boat, and the more opinions you seek the more conflicting information you receive.
If you lack the experience, at some point you must find one person whose opinions you trust and listen to that person.
That is advice I give to people who are willing to listen, and the ones who do, usually, find the right boat for their needs. Don't be in a rush, and educate yourself in order that you have at least some idea of what you are capable of.

Wood is an excellent construction material, and personally I would not consider anything else, but it is not for everyone. An older wood boat will require ongoing maintenance, and that is not an issue if it is your lifestyle, but for a marina queen it can be an issue.

Just some food for thought.
__________________

__________________
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 11:41   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.
That is quite true. Here in Maine, a wooden sailboat can command many times the price of a plastic boat because of that passion. However it does take a considerable amount of time and money to maintain that passion. Once in a while a truly great boat hits the market like a Fife, and many hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent not only in buying one, but in maintaining it. Better for most folks to stay with plastics. The saddest thing is to see a pedigree boat rot away because the owner can not afford to maintain it or has messed up in its maintenance.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 14:33   #64
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,719
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.
I really do not think "because of a price point" is a problem here, assuming that epoxy was used, in the case of this particular boat. Designer and yard, good. If the survey shows no rot, the buyer is likely to have many more or less trouble-free years of use of her, in some ways, maybe a better chance than with a plastic boat. Fortunately he lives in a small geographically country, where he has access to many shipwrights who are familiar with timber construction, whereas in the us, I think most of them are either in Maine, or a whole country apart, in Port Townsend and surrounding area. I would be way more attracted to this boat because it is where it is, not in the US.

If the fellow contemplating buying her does not feel comfortable with a composite boat, then perhaps it is not the right one for him, but he's a heck of a lot closer to help than a buyer in FL or TX would be.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 15:09   #65
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I really do not think "because of a price point" is a problem here, assuming that epoxy was used, in the case of this particular boat. Designer and yard, good. If the survey shows no rot, the buyer is likely to have many more or less trouble-free years of use of her, in some ways, maybe a better chance than with a plastic boat. Fortunately he lives in a small geographically country, where he has access to many shipwrights who are familiar with timber construction, whereas in the us, I think most of them are either in Maine, or a whole country apart, in Port Townsend and surrounding area. I would be way more attracted to this boat because it is where it is, not in the US.

If the fellow contemplating buying her does not feel comfortable with a composite boat, then perhaps it is not the right one for him, but he's a heck of a lot closer to help than a buyer in FL or TX would be.

Ann
Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is?
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 17:26   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 46' Cold Molded Wood Cutter
Posts: 14
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Wow, that's an endorsement! You are not by any chance getting any commission from the agent? No I donít know the owner nor the agent, I am just an old geezer who has learned to appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of different construction methods, (including cold molded wood and fibreglass). This site would probably be better if others would learn a bit instead of being of the opinion that if it ainít fibreglass it will be a lot of maintenance, or it ainít no good. The only reason most boats are glass is because of the speed and cost of construction, not because itís necessarily better, unless of course you go to the exotic materials.
The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. This boat will be as strong as any glass boat, will require no more maintenance than a glass boat of a similar age (probably less as no chance of osmosis).
Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is? There are plenty of good boatbuilders to repair wood boats in this part of the world, or even build new ones. They even build new wood boat in England, look at Spirit Yachts for a well built boat.
__________________
South Pacific is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 17:52   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth,Minnesota
Boat: Lindenberg 26 & Aloha 8.2
Posts: 984
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is?
No use for an adze when building a modern wood boat, which includes the one being discussed here. Last time I used one though was to remove a worn out teak deck on a Cherubini 44 as recently as 10 years ago.
__________________
clockwork orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 02:19   #68
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,719
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Yeah, guys, I feel fortunate to be on first name basis with two shipwrights! And I think I have a sense of how to find more, should i need them!

We even know a shipwright who is training an apprentice! In this day and age! It is definitely a niche market, though.

a
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 18:33   #69
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Hopefully the OP will find a good surveyor to assist his decision.

Someone asked about laying up plywood by hand: Our boat had a composite deck of 1-1/2" teak over a hand-laid (fir) plywood subdeck 3/8" thick--three
1/8" thick layers glued together. It was a more common way of doing things "way back" and was recommended to be done (with teak) for bulkheads and such by L&L Pardey in one of their books on building boats. Our present deck is 18mm of diagonally laid BS1088 plywood over 3/4" Alaskan Yellow Cedar subdeck (overhead).

This thread has lots of very nice information about the strip planked boats and proper use of epoxy in wood boat construction. Here in the USA we do have a lot of carvel planked boats beyond their service life that do seem to end up sheathed in fiberglass as a last ditch attempt to keep them in service for a bit longer. Not such a good plan. I love wood boats but 8 out of 10 I've seen are not in an ocean-going condition as they're not properly maintained.

I've seen some very nicely constructed edge-nailed strip planked boats (w/o epoxy/glass though) and the only real shortcoming is in terms of damage repair but otherwise they seem to perform quite nicely. There are also a good number of cold molded boats and carvel planked ones out there that are quite lovely and strong.

Our boat is a carvel planked hull (replanked 2007/08 timeframe with Sapale "African Mahogany" and bronze screws) and it's stiff, strong, and a wonderful cruising vessel. Built in 1930, cruised extensively in the 30's and 50's, 60's, refastened in 1968, cruised in the 70's. Poorly maintained in the 90's and rebuilt by us in 2007-09. I've been told by a shipwright and by a wooden boat surveyor that a typical wooden sailboat (strip planked, carvel planked, or cold molded) of cruising size is built for a 30 year usage "life" and you can get that in 10 years of heavy use, 60 years of light use, or some other period of time. Take away good maintenance and of course the period gets shorter. Refasten the hull or otherwise properly maintain it and the period gets longer.

This "advice" was proven by the Alden schooner Voyager--the boat was built in 1929, rebuilt completely in 1972, rebuilt completely again in 2002-4. The two rebuilds were done by the same owner who liked her to perform well. She was raced in the 70's/80's and then cruised extensively until her return to the USA in 2007 and now she's for sale with at least a good 20 years of life left in her

Best of luck to the OP in getting a boat that suits his/her use.
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 06:30   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Most of the Lymans, Thompsons, and Pen Yann boats were plywood boats. A lot of them from the 50s and 60s still around in New England. Plywood will last an awfully long time if taken care of. Either paint or varnish will protect the wood.

No wood likes fresh water. Salt water will help preserve the wood by preventing dry rot and other mildew spores from munching through the wood.

Some of the old Islander yawls are still around after 70 years. All built out of plywood. A lot of them were glassed over to ease maintenance. We examined one and found it solid as a rock. Unfortunately that was after its new owner decided to rip up the fiberglass. At least the plywood was in brand new condition underneath; although she did considerable damage to the poor boat in her ignorance.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 07:08   #71
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

My 1st boat was pitch pine plank on oak.. great boat.. had a couple of ply Tiki's.. there's loads of ply Maurice Griffiths Ebbtides, Waterwitch's from the 50's/60's still going strong.. another well known wood marque still going strong is the 'Hillyard's'

As for the glass.. if done as part of the build and she passed a survey with no foreseeable expensive problems by a specialist.. and she fulfilled My wants and needs within My price..
I'd buy her in a heart beat...

Below is a 1925 Hillyard currently for sale on the E coast UK.
Carvel build 4 tonner.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	446661_1.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	118287   Click image for larger version

Name:	446661_5.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	118288  

__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 07:58   #72
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,331
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

With all the boats available in the world I don't understand why someone would get one that they have a "concern" about construction wise. And I definitely wouldn't allow a bunch of forum responses out weigh a concern.

But that's just me.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 12:07   #73
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
No use for an adze when building a modern wood boat, which includes the one being discussed here. Last time I used one though was to remove a worn out teak deck on a Cherubini 44 as recently as 10 years ago.
Probably no need for and adze today nor knowing how to use oakum to chink a hull. Today if someone is building in wood, if they can find it, with todays tools and glues I would call them boat builders not boat or shipwrights. Maybe semantics.
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 12:16   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Probably no need for and adze today nor knowing how to use oakum to chink a hull. Today if someone is building in wood, if they can find it, with todays tools and glues I would call them boat builders not boat or shipwrights. Maybe semantics.
You are correct. There are probably fewer than 50 yards nationwide that can still do the old stuff like applying oakum to a hull, or tar and parcel rigging. Mystic seaport is about the only place left where sawn oak knees can be produced. Most of the stuff today is small skiff building. Not a lot of demand for shipwrights. And when it comes to riveted hulls, forgettaboutit. Ironmongers went the way of raccoon pies.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 12:33   #75
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
You are correct. There are probably fewer than 50 yards nationwide that can still do the old stuff like applying oakum to a hull, or tar and parcel rigging. Mystic seaport is about the only place left where sawn oak knees can be produced. Most of the stuff today is small skiff building. Not a lot of demand for shipwrights. And when it comes to riveted hulls, forgettaboutit. Ironmongers went the way of raccoon pies.
I think they have gotten the oak from here for the Morgan rebuild. Natural knees.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
glassed, mahogany

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would you buy a boat that you knew has sunk in the past? Transporter2112 General Sailing Forum 59 14-01-2015 20:06
It's Never Over Until You Say It's Over maxingout General Sailing Forum 12 16-03-2009 17:32
Fibreglass over plywood experiment Brent Swain Construction, Maintenance & Refit 27 25-05-2007 19:15
Mahogany or Teak Cleats Pleiades Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 15-01-2007 09:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.