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Old 02-11-2012, 13:15   #31
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

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Ideally the high point of the wet exhaust should be just after the waterlock.

I.e. down from the mixing point to the waterlock and then up from the waterlock to the high point and then all down to the through-hull.

Is the exhaust through-hull higher or lower than the exhaust ?

If you are planning to get into salt water at some point all rubber would be a good idea, unfortuantly the rubber hose is not cheap. If you go that route, Vetus makes a rubber through hull that would totally isolate your hull from the hot salty (corosive) exhaust.

I looked at your pics again, and the only thing that is not shown is where the red and blue hoses go from the heat exchanger and to the mixing point. I guess that's where the transmission cooler is ?

Do you have an engine manual ?

Cheers,
John.
Is the exhaust through-hull higher or lower than the exhaust ?
Good question... I'd have to check, but I think the exhaust thru hull is higher.
I'm going to have to find the waterline in the engine compartment, and in the aft locker where the exhaust thru hull is so I can give a definitive answer.
Just did a search for Vetus rubber through hull. Not bad. Bookmarked, and on the list
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Old 02-11-2012, 13:20   #32
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

The hydraulics are fairly simple. Starting from the pump the oil goes to the control valve/relief valve and depending on which direction the lever is in, either to the forward cylinder or reverse cylinder. The forward cylinder is single acting spring return and the reverse cylinder mounted on top of the case is quite small and simply clamps the band onto the clutch drum. The tricky part is in reassembly as there are two cast piston rings on the stub that are separated by very narrow lands that are quite fragile and if broken, to use a technical term "you are screwed" Yes I busted one. It is important when reassembling to do it with the drum and case in the vertical position. There is a generous chamfer on the case to allow the rings to compress during installation.

There seems to be lots of used Paragons out there as they are old technology but they are simple and reliable so worth investing the time in rebuilding them.
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Old 02-11-2012, 13:29   #33
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

As per a previous post Anthony Keats marine is the source for gaskets and rebuild kits for the Paragons.
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Old 03-11-2012, 00:21   #34
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

Rob, I just looked at your photos on post #28 and if I am seeing correctly your exhaust goes out thru the hull, not the transom, and there is hardly any rise to the pipe before it runs forward. You say that you could raise it 2 feet or more and I think it would be a very wise move. I believe that your boat is a Roberts 44, and I wonder if a set of plans came with the boat that would show the proper installation? Or maybe you could contact Bruce Roberts office and get the drawing of the exhaust system. This may have nothing to do with your present problems, but is almost assured to fill your engine with water on a good downwind sail._______Grant.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:36   #35
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

Just a wee bit more to help you along, when checking your old impeller, look at the root of the vanse for cracks or splits, for the price of it always fit a new one, before fitting if you put a vacuum cleaner nozzle up the outlet side of the water pump">raw water pump, if will take out any broken pieces of impeller that have gone to the tube stack of the heat exchanger, coat the new impeller with washing up liquid to make it really easy to fit and provide lubrication on the initial start up. I would be inclined to take each stage methodically until each problem is eliminated. The 4236 is considered by many engineers to be the benchmark of diesel engines and if serviced correctly will last you a lifetime.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:32   #36
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236



The water injection point looks quite low. I think there should be a vented loop between the transmission cooler and the injection point.

But I presume it was working at some point.

So, the question is why was it not a problem in the past ?
Has the trim of the boat changed ? New davits ? New Batteries ?

The other thing is the new muffler. Should not be a problem, but; Maybe the "rubber flapper" on the outlet of the old muffler was stopping the water in 20' of exhaust hose from rushing back into the engine on shutdown ?

Frustrating problem, but a lot easier to get it sorted out now at your home port.

Cheers,
John.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:02   #37
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

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Rob, since you have a center cockpit , you may be able to T your siphon break into a cockpit drain. The cockpit sole is generally much higher on a center cockpit boat than an aft cockpit and may give you the height needed to plumb into the drain. An advantage of this , is that when you start your engine(from the helm) you will hear the water in the cockpit drain, and know that you are pumping water. If the water is not flowing, the sound is differant enough to notice the problem. Many boats are plumbed this way. Good Luck._____Grant.
I've never had this luxury, but know people that have it that way.... great setup.
The exhaust on my 4-236 was a full 3" or 3.5" diameter yours looks awfully small.
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Old 03-11-2012, 13:47   #38
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

The reason I asked about the trans cooling line is that if a piece of impeller clogged your trans cooler it would cause your trans to overheat and render your oil burnt and useless. It might also diminish the cooling through your engine which it seems that your undersized exhaust has contributed to.
I've flooded an engine with water by trying to bleed the fuel system while cranking the engine over and the seawater cooling intake open. Hard lesson to learn but it did have a happy ending once the seawater was expelled from the engine completely. Nothing got into the oil sump.
Good luck in your troubleshooting. Certainly a lot of suggestions to consider. I really liked the 4-236 engines I've encountered.
kind regards,
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:56   #39
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

I am no expert but have suffered similar ordeal, totally agree ensure heat exchanger is all good ,Perkins early model`s were built for simpletons I guess as all parts inside are Numbered and direction for fitting stamped on them so they are not hard to rebuild with a manual and fitter to set pump timing if you screw it up,Water can enter your motor by getting past the O-rings in top of piston liners pending model or corroded liners, as for your transmission most have friction plates and the groves in them deteriorate and need to be replaced again not that hard I thought after 6 assembly`s I finally realized that the tension springs at the end of the clutch pack were a separate Item to order and once fitted I was amazed $300 for pump timing 1 week of looking for tools in the shed and presto for $1200 engine kit and $600 transmission kit numerous carton`s of beer for scarred knuckles,2 bottle`s vodka for wife to stay silent and a miracle it all worked fine.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:46   #40
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

If you guys ever have trouble getting parts for your Perkins engines Google parts4engines.com and you can get your spares a a keen price and shipped anywhere in the world.
I hope this helps.
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Old 25-03-2013, 22:24   #41
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

Did you get your problem sorted ?

FYI, here is a Waterlift exhaust for sale that is the correct size for your engine.

3" Waterlock Exhaust - City of Toronto Parts, Trailers, Accessories For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.
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Old 25-03-2013, 22:40   #42
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

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If you guys ever have trouble getting parts for your Perkins engines Google parts4engines.com and you can get your spares a a keen price and shipped anywhere in the world.
I hope this helps.
Shame they don't list the 6354
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Old 26-03-2013, 04:05   #43
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

Emmalina, parts are readily available for any of the Perkins 6354 series, many of the parts are interchangeable with the 4236 series. The Perkins 6354 range are fitted to some Dodge trucks, JCB excavators and Massey Ferguson tractors as well as various gen sets, try a local dealer and if you get into difficulty contact me and I'll put you in touch with a supplier who will ship any parts you need direct to you.
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Old 26-03-2013, 21:05   #44
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

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Did you get your problem sorted ?

FYI, here is a Waterlift exhaust for sale that is the correct size for your engine.

3" Waterlock Exhaust - City of Toronto Parts, Trailers, Accessories For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

Good timing.
I just had the transmission rebuilt, and installed it last weekend. This weekend we're aligning the tranny with the prop shaft, and I'll be starting to replumb the engine over the next couple of weeks. Damn, wet exhaust hose is expensive!
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Old 26-03-2013, 21:47   #45
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Re: Working on an old Perkins 4.236

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Emmalina, parts are readily available for any of the Perkins 6354 series, many of the parts are interchangeable with the 4236 series. The Perkins 6354 range are fitted to some Dodge trucks, JCB excavators and Massey Ferguson tractors as well as various gen sets, try a local dealer and if you get into difficulty contact me and I'll put you in touch with a supplier who will ship any parts you need direct to you.
Thanks. I have sources for parts here in SE Asia but a bit dear there are still a lot around. Mine is practically new (1983) and running fine think it has about 25k hours on it. Just about to rebuild the tranny as i have a few oil leaks. Thanks
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