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Old 20-08-2012, 21:43   #91
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Are the wormshoes mentioned previously anything like the sacrificial planking builders used to use regularly in the 1600 and 1700s--i.e., a secondary sheathing of the hull and all parts below the waterline line? Normally the sacrificial sheathing was nailed to the hull with broadhead iron nails spaced closely together and with a layer of horsehair and tar between the outer and inner planking. The idea was the toredo would attack the outer planking and never get to the actual hull planking because of the layer of tar and horsehair.
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Old 20-08-2012, 22:09   #92
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Astrid-on the shrimpboats, they put a layer of tarpaper, regular roof stuff, and then nail a 2x8 pine board to the bottom of the keel (keels were usually 2x8' or 10" wide oak, laminated to the desired thickness. Since the pine is softer than the white oak, the worms attack there. Every time you haul, take the old one off and put a new one on. The hull planking was swamp cypress, which is extremely resistant to worms (and also to rot). I know my ex-uncle's first boat, built in the late 40's, is still being shrimped full-time by his grandson. they were built to last.
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Old 20-08-2012, 23:17   #93
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

If this guy need boards there lots of good swamp cpyress down the Bayou I just saw 24 1 1/4 inch 24 ft long black cypress planks yesterday when I was getting a price on hauling and doing the bottom on our new boat !! so some real good stuff could be gotten if he decides to do the job right !! just sayin better right then sunk !
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Old 21-08-2012, 00:33   #94
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Hello,
thanks for all the effort.
I will see after routing some 1/2 inch grooves how bad it is. If it looks bad I still can pull the plank.

Minaret you have a point I was not thinking about.
After long storage the boat is dry. This could make it possible to pull the plank without destroying it. The fasteners are silicon bronze screws.

This season I am not in a hurry. I will have time to do the things right.

I have a lot of very good teak on board. It would be enough to make the repair with the router system. If I have to repair planks I need to buy wood. What is availible in the states for my needs. I am missing the terms in english like "quality sticker dried timber".

thanks again
peter
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Old 21-08-2012, 01:14   #95
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

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Originally Posted by awab View Post
Hello,
thanks for all the effort.
I will see after routing some 1/2 inch grooves how bad it is. If it looks bad I still can pull the plank.

Minaret you have a point I was not thinking about.
After long storage the boat is dry. This could make it possible to pull the plank without destroying it. The fasteners are silicon bronze screws.

This season I am not in a hurry. I will have time to do the things right.

I have a lot of very good teak on board. It would be enough to make the repair with the router system. If I have to repair planks I need to buy wood. What is availible in the states for my needs. I am missing the terms in english like "quality sticker dried timber".

thanks again
peter
You should have no problem acquiring everything you need in your locale. Sticker dried lumber is just yacht quality quarter sawn wood which has been air dried rather than kiln dried like cheap commercial lumber. The good stuff. If your planking is presently teak, definitely stick with that. I am a west coast guy so cant really help you with advice on east coast dealers, but I'm sure some here like Blue Stockings or others might be able to point you in the right direction. I'm sure you can pull a plank without destroying it. Reef out the caulking first before popping all the bungs and pulling fasteners. A little exploratory router work would probably be informative, and if the area really is very small might not overcommit you. Make sure to use a fairing batten tacked to the hull for the router guide so it's easy to fit the new wood. But I would only do this if its very small and you are absolutely certain there are no entry holes esewhere. Please post a picture if you can.
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Old 21-08-2012, 01:17   #96
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

I find the off topic stuff here more interesting than the dilemma of the OP. Frankly, if after 100 posts and the Op is still not wanting to do the repair correctly, especially after professionals in the business have stated such, well then...are they not merely trolling?
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Old 21-08-2012, 12:52   #97
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Quote:
Astrid-on the shrimpboats, they put a layer of tarpaper, regular roof stuff, and then nail a 2x8 pine board to the bottom of the keel (keels were usually 2x8' or 10" wide oak, laminated to the desired thickness. Since the pine is softer than the white oak, the worms attack there. Every time you haul, take the old one off and put a new one on. The hull planking was swamp cypress, which is extremely resistant to worms (and also to rot). I know my ex-uncle's first boat, built in the late 40's, is still being shrimped full-time by his grandson. they were built to last.
Thanks. From reading it is the same basic idea. 17 - 18th centuries, shipbuilders would often cover the underwater portions of the hull entirely with a horsehair and tar layer or tar and canvas, then plank over with soft pine as a sacrificial layer. Rudders were treated the same way. The sacrificial planking was then heavily painted with white lead or arsenic based paint.
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Old 21-08-2012, 13:51   #98
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

hello
awab s hull is not teak but honduras mahogany on white oak frame. Teak decks.
I had a mast break some years ago in panama and the mayor problem was not to build the mast is was to get the right wood again. I was lucky to find two old mast out of Sitka Spruce. I could take them apart and was able to build a mizzen and had enough to repair the main.
Its been a lucky shot to find the right wood.
I will see what I can get in north carolina.
When I am back to the boat I will post some pic and try to document the repair. Never took much care for things like this but perhaps it will help other with the same problem.

thanks
peter
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Old 21-08-2012, 15:38   #99
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Quote:
Originally Posted by awab View Post
hello
awab s hull is not teak but honduras mahogany on white oak frame. Teak decks.
I had a mast break some years ago in panama and the mayor problem was not to build the mast is was to get the right wood again. I was lucky to find two old mast out of Sitka Spruce. I could take them apart and was able to build a mizzen and had enough to repair the main.
Its been a lucky shot to find the right wood.
I will see what I can get in north carolina.
When I am back to the boat I will post some pic and try to document the repair. Never took much care for things like this but perhaps it will help other with the same problem.

thanks
peter

Spar quality Spruce is much harder to get than Honduras Mahogany, you should have no trouble. Good luck!
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Old 21-08-2012, 15:56   #100
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

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Originally Posted by awab View Post
dear readers
I have since 12 years AWAB a 1958 s&s motorsailor.

Awab is build traditional honduras mahogani planking over white oak and teak decks.
I been lucky to have no major problem with the famous worm till now.
The boat is hulled out since 3 month and now I have to get started with my repairs.
On several spots I see the typically holes of the intruder.
In the meantime the toredo should be death.

Now the question.
I think there is no need yet to replace the invested planks but what is the best system to repair the wood and close the holes.

I been already thinking to cut with a circular saw stripes half the debt of the plank and fill the gaps with a kind of epoxy.

For your experience I would be thank full,

peter
Hello from George who has been keeping wood boats going in tropic waters for 40 years. Heres what to do. First get a propane torch and go over all worm holes to kill any devils still in there but dont scorch the wood . Next get some wood preservitive from a building store -the green stuff copper based-paint it on all worm damaged ares -next get some liquid WEST type epoxy and work it into the holes and surronding areas----this will act also as a primer for next step---which is to get 1:1 mix epoxy glue-load it into a caulk gun and squirt it into all worm holes -then screed smooth on outside. Noe paint wit usual antifouling but use a primer first as antifoul doesnt like to stick to epoxy. The epoxy will act like reinforcing rivets and boat will actually be stronger than ever..... DO IT!
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Old 21-08-2012, 16:04   #101
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
Thanks. From reading it is the same basic idea. 17 - 18th centuries, shipbuilders would often cover the underwater portions of the hull entirely with a horsehair and tar layer or tar and canvas, then plank over with soft pine as a sacrificial layer. Rudders were treated the same way. The sacrificial planking was then heavily painted with white lead or arsenic based paint.

And yet they still had horrible problems with shipworm. The histories are absolutely full of accounts of whole fleets returning from long cruises useless due to worm. Many countries even selected the building sites for shipyards based in part on whether worm was a severe problem in that area or not. Of course now different species of worm have been transported all over the world in the ballast water of large ships, and the issue is much complicated. As is the case with many other marine pests as well, some of which are fouling risks to ships and small craft like ours, such as the zebra mussel.
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Old 21-08-2012, 16:46   #102
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Quote:
And yet they still had horrible problems with shipworm.
Absolutely! Which is why copper sheathing became such a godsend.
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Old 21-08-2012, 18:05   #103
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

AWAB-you haven't said where you are in NC, but if you need any lumber, get in touch with Capitol City Lumber in Raleigh, NC. You'll have to find the phone# yourself or check out their website. They carry a huge selection of exotic, air-dried hardwoods including Honduran mahogany.

Raleigh is approximately 80-100 miles from the coast (depends on where you are), but they should be able to find a way to get it to you. Also, just ask around where you are for local builders, you may be able to find a plank or two available.
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Old 22-08-2012, 00:38   #104
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

thanks jaycall

I am in hamstead. Have another project there and will buy a car for some time. To get things transported will be no problem.
the other project is a ferrocement boat.
Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream
I have an idea with this boat and I will work on it for some time. It will be a very nice home on the water anchored in the san blas the hole year. Beach front property.


Reading the post of georgetheleo.

This is my kind of thinking I had in the first place. In combination with some router cuts
and inserts I will try this first. If I see its not working out I can take the planks out anytime later.

I am also sure if I can get a good penetration with epoxy the plank will be stronger then original. I am also not sure that the wood I will find to replace a blank is in general as good as the wood I have in the moment.

thanks you again
peter
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Old 22-08-2012, 05:53   #105
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Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

To clarify the "liquid epoxy application" Use a syringe to shoot it into the wormholes in addition to using a brush -will penetrate better. George
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