Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-08-2012, 13:30   #61
Registered User
 
bruce smith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: puget sound/ caribbean
Boat: never wrecked a boat while awake or sober
Posts: 330
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

When I say epoxy is not magic goo , this is exactly what I mean.
"Saturation" is not possible in a plank. "Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique" has to do with using one sixteenth or one eighth thick lams (cold molding) , when hit from both sides , may saturate.
Take the worm infected plank off and replace it .
Burning worms out is for deadwood and worm shoe , not hull planking.
Please stop trying to kid yourself.
__________________

__________________
bruce smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 14:29   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mallacoota - SE Australia
Boat: 1950's Lakes Cruiser
Posts: 82
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Thanks for that info awab - and your english is just fine - I sound like non english when the equipment does not have spell check - my problem is that the boat can't stay out of the water more than 2 days - in a previous thread I recieved lots of advice in keeping the boat out of the water more than 2 days ( Garden hose sprinkler spray etc) but that will also keep the worm alive - would it not ? MVR
__________________

__________________
MV-Romnya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 14:30   #63
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Kerfing the planks would also remove yet more material and make the problem even worse. This is not a good idea and I sure hope you don't do it.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 15:32   #64
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Fascinating thread.

I really feel for you awab. You are in a difficult situation. It is tough to accept advice that is telling you that you have a major project when you were hoping for a quick fix.

First let me say that you need to listen to what Minaret is saying. Toredos are serious business and if you dont respond properly the next time tou have to deal with it it will likely be to abandon your boat since it will likely be unseaworthy.

I have built a couple small woodies and owned and restored a 70 year old woodie that was based out of malaysia. Toredo central let me tell you.

If you love your boat, or even if she just makes you feel tingly you had better prepare yourself. A proper job involves:

1. pulling ALL planks with any visible holes.
2. You will have to cut them. If there are only a couple small holes you can start fore and aft of the entry point and start chopping the wood with a saw until you see no more tunnels in the wood. If what you have left is more than 3 frame lengths long you can re use it. This is a restoration technique however to preserve original wood and is is usually faster to cut and spile a new plank. If you cant do it, well its time to learn.
3. All adjacent planks need to be inspected, usually this means removing them. Good time to inspect your fasteners, its never a bad time to inspect fasteners on a woodie if you get an opportunity!!!
4. Now comea the real nightmare keep you awake at night moment....unlike termites or wood ants, toredos dont care as much about grain in wood. They are much more likely to make right angles when chewing. What this means is that now that your frames are exposed with the planks off you need to inspect them really closely for entry holes. Find one and you have entered a whole new level of hurt.

Not that this forum isnt full of serious experts like Minaret and others, but it wouldnt hurt to also look into the woodenboat forum.

Just brace yourself, they dont pull their punches...

Edit:

Another thing..

...anyone who recommends the use of epoxy on planking, framing, or any other working member of a wood boat should be keel hauled and made to sit in a marine materials science class every day for eternity. Epoxy is brittle, wood is flexible. The point of contact between the two has been proven to ALWAYS catastropically fail is the wood is undergoing work cycles which all working members of a wood hull do. It is not if but when, 6 months or 10 years it will go without any warning whatsoever...
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 15:59   #65
Registered User
 
bruce smith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: puget sound/ caribbean
Boat: never wrecked a boat while awake or sober
Posts: 330
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

I am "Wizbang 13" over on the Wooden Boat Forum.
I am usually one of the most "pro" epoxy guys there. But I know when not to use it .
My own epoxy /wood boat is 30 years old , I built it when I was young.
never had a worm.
__________________
bruce smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 16:12   #66
Registered User
 
awab's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

thanks for all the advise
peter
__________________
awab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 16:13   #67
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce smith
I am "Wizbang 13" over on the Wooden Boat Forum.
I am usually one of the most "pro" epoxy guys there. But I know when not to use it .
My own epoxy /wood boat is 30 years old , I built it when I was young.
never had a worm.
I must assume it is either strip planked or plywood?

Not to be superfluous as Epoxy has its uses but on a carvel planked vessel, especially with the experience level the OP seems to have , its use is usually the beginnign of death for the vessel.
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 16:16   #68
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by awab
hello again
this boat was sailing in heavy weather from havanna to north carolina. Why now with some worm holes it should not be strong anymore. I am not talking about a totally rotten hull.
I think it is time to check out.
Thanks for the effort but I have the feeling you guys are board and talk nonsense.

all the best
peter
Could be totally fine.

Pull the bad plank. Cut it up to see and replace it. A days work and a morning to pay the seams and caulk.

Pull the planks next to it to see if they have any holes. If not then prob ok, if so then trouble.

Could be easy could be hard, You wont know if you dont pull that first plank.
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 16:24   #69
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,114
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Be sure to show this discussion to anyone who you may talk into going to sea with you.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 16:29   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Well awab, if ya think folks on here are bored!! then just go ahead and epoxy up your wooden boat and leave the worms in there !!! but be sure your Insurence is paid up on the boat and on your life !! cus your an accident waiting to happen !! When someone like Minaret tell ya something like they did ya better believe it cus this is their trade !! they know what they are speaking about !! Lots of luck to ya with your Ideas about fixing a wormy boat!! cus your gonna need it !! I feel for ya !! but if ya get your head out of the dark place it's in, maybe you will see folks are trying to help ya not mess with ya !!! just my 2 cents
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 17:12   #71
Registered User
 
awab's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

I am fine with the the statement that epoxy is brittle in relation to wood.
What else could be the replacement. Lets say I take a router 1 inch bit. Cut a canal as long I see the problem. Now I clue a 1 inch piece of wood in it. Should be fine.

I am not at the boat right now. I make research of the options I have.
I totally understand that pulling the plank is the right way. When it comes to make the work I will do the best in my possibilities.

I am not sure this speculations about how poor I am or this could be the beginning of a insurance scam has something to do with this post.

thanks again for your patience.
peter

to MV-Romnya

I had awab out of the water already for more then 8 month. Nothing happend. I dont have experience in very dry climate. Its a little bit like storage cigars. I cuba you don t need a humidor. Here in italy they try out terrible fast.
A month out of the water should not be a problem for any boat and if you want and can you can always keep it wet in having water - I have always salt in the bilge-in the bilge and sprinkle it from the outside. In killing the worm it would be better to have some clorox in the water to prevent rod not salt.
Be carefull not having to much sun on one side of the boat. Have a cover for the sun side. The worm normally lives only 14 days outside the water and needs saltwater for his survival. So sprinkeled sweet water is not helping him.
hope this helps

peter
__________________
awab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 18:16   #72
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Foolish, good advice from a clearly experienced marine carpenter there.

While "short-planking" is pretty common in the industry, it is also something that guys in the more high end shops tend to mock. We call a short plank a "Dutchman". The more butt blocks you have the more likely you are to spring a butt. The nicest wooden boats I have worked on have full length planks, without a single butt. Seen some pretty large examples of this construction in older boats. One was a 70' Geary schooner with teak planking. Can you imagine how much trouble you'd be in with the yard foreman if you split the hood end of a 70' plank steaming it in!? Sadly those days are long gone.
I know you are aware of that fact, just thought I'd record my opinion for posterity...
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 22:45   #73
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

I can hardly imagine a 70' teak plank. I won't go any shorter than four stations on a plank scarph. Just won't do it.
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2012, 23:07   #74
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
I can hardly imagine a 70' teak plank. I won't go any shorter than four stations on a plank scarph. Just won't do it.

You scarph carvel planks? What kind of scarph do you use? I was always taught that a butt block is superior, even when short planking.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 01:03   #75
Registered User
 
awab's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
Re: Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

hello
perhaps it is the language and I don t make myself clear.

Imagine the plank. Inside the plank are the round long carvings from the toredo.
It would be not possible to only fill the hole with epoxy. Result would be only blocking the entry for max some inches. no good.

The idea.
Take a plunge router 1/2 inch router bit and make a cut half the depht of the plank
as long as the passage way of the toredo. Then you leave lets say 1 inch and make another cut. The cuts are parallel to the plank.
Now I would take 1/2 inch wood stripes and clue them in place, fasten them to the stations. This would produce a result like a key for a lock.
I would say this is very strong and the epoxy part is minimal.

If I would see after making the cut with the router the wood is damaged to much I can still take the plank off and replace it.


thanks again
peter
__________________

__________________
awab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.