Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

[Astral Blue]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

And wood is cheaper than epoxy.

--and SO MUCH more pleasant to work with.[/QUOTE]

+1. A proper repair is ALWAYS the least expensive option.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Astral Blue

+1. A proper repair is ALWAYS the least expensive option.

Unless he has insurance! You never know, it could pay off for him. Lol!

[awab]

hello to minaret

no, I dont have insurance and I am not willing to sink my boat. I like awab and it is a great boat to me.
I know that replacing a blank is a possible way to repair.
I am only investigating to find a possible other way. There is nothing wrong to do so.
I am taking the boat out of the water nearly every 6 month to store the boat during european summer.
The holes are fresh and the investation should be no very old. I still don't see why a repair should be not possible. I am also thinking to take the planks out and look more closely.

I understand your concern if I would wait till a state of no return. I am still thinking when I get epoxy into the holes the planks would be fine. A plank is more then 10-12 feet long. Epoxy is perhaps expensive but good wood in the right shape is also not easy to get.
I am really bothered about the hit with the insurance.

Thanks anyway for your thoughts
If somebody has help full ideas I still appreciate it.

peter

[minaret]

Originally Posted by awab

hello to minaret

no, I dont have insurance and I am not willing to sink my boat. I like awab and it is a great boat to me.
I know that replacing a blank is a possible way to repair.
I am only investigating to find a possible other way. There is nothing wrong to do so.
I am taking the boat out of the water nearly every 6 month to store the boat during european summer.
The holes are fresh and the investation should be no very old. I still don't see why a repair should be not possible. I am also thinking to take the planks out and look more closely.

I understand your concern if I would wait till a state of no return. I am still thinking when I get epoxy into the holes the planks would be fine. A plank is more then 10-12 feet long. Epoxy is perhaps expensive but good wood in the right shape is also not easy to get.
I am really bothered about the hit with the insurance.

Thanks anyway for your thoughts
If somebody has help full ideas I still appreciate it.

peter

Sounds like you're coming around. Taking some planks off to properly inspect what's happening is all I was suggesting from the start. The problem with affected wood is that it's very difficult to determine the extent of the damage. Notice in the articles you linked to they were talking about train bridges collapsing that had just been inspected? I have removed planking that only had a couple of visible holes and sounded with a hammer just fine, but when I resaw the plank to inspect it after we have decided to condemn that plank, it is full of worm holes. This is because Teredo and Gribble infect the planking when still in a larval stage and very very small, the entry hole can be fairly invisible. And once Teredo start Gribble often follow. So usually I remove planks until I can find no evidence whatsoever of intrusion. This also gives you a good opportunity to inspect frames, deadwood, stem, etc. etc. Sometimes you get lucky and it's only one plank and some deadwood, sometimes not. Note that a full on infestation can destroy a docks pilings 8 months after new construction. It's not about time of exposure so much as degree of exposure, though both are obviously a factor. Teredo bores are often 1/4" diameter or more, though the exterior holes are much smaller. Would you drill 1/4" holes width wise through your planking and then fill it with epoxy and sleep well at night? I certainly wouldn't. Pull affected planking and inspect it carefully. If you decide to condemn a piece, inspect further by resawing on a bandsaw. If you find minimal damage you have wasted a plank in the interest of being certain of your situation. If the damage is more severe, you know you may need to continue. Believe me, my only interest is in seeing you on your way with a properly repaired boat that will allow you to rest easy and be a risk to no one. I am all for keeping the classics afloat. The whole process will be great for your knowledge of your boat in any case, if you have owned the boat twelve years I would assume you have had a plank off before, but if it hasn't happened recently a good look at your structural members will be informative.

[bobconnie]

awab, seems to me that the only helpfull hints have been given to you by folks some of who make there living doing work of this type, and have for years !! the only thing I can add is I saw a wooden boat whos owner repaired worm holes with fiberglass sheet and epoxy! two years after the repairs he had it lifted to do bottom paint! the keel and part of the bottom just came apart in the air as it was lifted!! so it looks like to me theres ONLY one way to fix this problem is the RIGHT way !! not filling in some worm holes with glass !! thats not gonna stop them from continueing eating your planks !! once in, they stay till the boats gone !!LOL just sayin your way is a bummer ! fix it right the first time and then you know you and yours are safe!! just my 2 cents

[minaret]

Originally Posted by awab

I am really bothered about the hit with the insurance.


peter

Sorry man, just cracking a joke with that other guy about whether a proper repair is always cheapest. Didn't mean to reflect on your boat. I'm sure it's beautiful and more than worth caring for, just trying to help. I also have a Sparkman and Stephens motor sailor, 52' LOD.

[crashkahuna]

I know nothing about wood boats but just read interesting procedure described in Pardey's book (Seraffin's mediterranean adventure) where he describes fixing a worm damaged boat using creosote, roof paper, sacrificial strip of mahogany, copper. Also drilled out some holes and plugged with wood.

[MV-Romnya]

I am thinking of injecting kerosine into the holes to kill the critters if they are there - NO SMOKING please

[awab]

hello,

after being out of the water the critter are dead after a certain time.
On of the hints that there are dead is seeing flies going into the hole. They laying there eggs into the dead toredo. After a while also this stops.
Kerosine or heat with a torch is only needed if you have no time to stay out of the water for long time. After 2 weeks to one month there is no more action in the wood anymore.
There are only holes and this holes have to get closed. This wood is normally sound not like it would be invested with dry rod.

Very often I see thrift wood on the beach with monster holes. If you would fill the holes with epoxy you would have a very solid piece.

I am still have my problems in writing in english. Hope I can transport the ideas.

thanks again
peter

[bruce smith]

"Very often I see thrift wood on the beach with monster holes. If you would fill the holes with epoxy you would have a very solid piece."
I don't think so. This is how you want to fix a boat? Epoxy is not miracle goo.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by awab

.........

Very often I see thrift wood on the beach with monster holes. If you would fill the holes with epoxy you would have a very solid piece............

thanks again
peter

Peter, the biggest problem is actually being able to FILL the holes completely. Sure you can force the epoxy into them, but how far can you get it into the holes before you can't push anymore in. In most cases, the hole will only be partially filled and will have significant voids remaining - unless you have a better technique than me

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Peter, the biggest problem is actually being able to FILL the holes completely. Sure you can force the epoxy into them, but how far can you get it into the holes before you can't push anymore in. In most cases, the hole will only be partially filled and will have significant voids remaining - unless you have a better technique than me

Exactly. And even if you did get them all the way filled, it still wouldn't be a good repair. Drilling for treenails doesn't work either, because the bores are never straight. Quite the opposite, the bore follows the softest wood and loops all over the place. Because the worm is trying not to expose his burrow, they dont bore straight in. Instead they bore in to the middle of the plank and then make a 90 degree turn, so most of the hole is not visible. This also means most of the bore is in the worst possible plane for the planking.

[awab]

hello

If I would make cuts into the plank with a circular saw half the depth of the plank I would cut through the holes made by the toredo. Now it would be easy to fill everything with a creamy epoxy and a spatula.
Still don t see why this would not work.
This would be possible to make with the plank in place.
The plank should be very strong again saturated with epoxy.
This would be inexpensive and fast.

I would be interested where you guys see the problem.

thanks
peter

[micah719]

The problems would be....where do the worm holes stop? How many planks does he have to mangle, considering the surface entry hole might be tiny. How does having masses of expoxy in the middle of planks affect the flexibility of the hull working together as a whole, could hard spots be made that break up? What condition is the timber around the holes? What is the impact strength of such a mangled hull? Is he willing to risk sudden swimming in a debris patch mid-ocean? I can understand his desperation to find solutions, even his attempt to avoid starting to rip planks off, the sensible solution....where will it stop? He might not be able to afford sensible....and be left sitting on a pile of expensive firewood. Poor guy, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes....

[minaret]

Originally Posted by awab

hello

If I would make cuts into the plank with a circular saw half the depth of the plank I would cut through the holes made by the toredo. Now it would be easy to fill everything with a creamy epoxy and a spatula.
Still don t see why this would not work.
This would be possible to make with the plank in place.
The plank should be very strong again saturated with epoxy.
This would be inexpensive and fast.

I would be interested where you guys see the problem.

thanks
peter

The plank will not be very strong saturated with epoxy. Epoxy is very brittle and not all that strong by itself. Wood is quite flexible, and will work under load. They are very dissimilar materials. The epoxy will crack when the wood flexes. Even if it didn't, it just won't be strong enough. Not even if you mix it with mill fibers. Inspect carefully and hope you noticed the problem in time. I'm sure this method might be fine for light sailing, but if you get her in some weather or aground the boat will not be as strong as she should be and may fail catastrophically. Believe me, Olin Stephens would not approve of this method.