Wood Hull Repair Toredo Worm

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Minaret,

I'm curious: how thick is the copper that you use, and how do you apply it? That is, is it in narrow strips laid lengthwise or what? I assume that you use carefully annealed copper so that it is pretty malleable, but I bet that you have to be careful to not let it work harden.

To be honest, I didn't know that anyone still did that job... very interesting. And I'm glad to hear someone else who says that the cladding is for worm denial, not antifouling. There is an awful lot of misinformation about that subject!

Cheers,

Jim

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Minaret,

I'm curious: how thick is the copper that you use, and how do you apply it? That is, is it in narrow strips laid lengthwise or what? I assume that you use carefully annealed copper so that it is pretty malleable, but I bet that you have to be careful to not let it work harden.

To be honest, I didn't know that anyone still did that job... very interesting. And I'm glad to hear someone else who says that the cladding is for worm denial, not antifouling. There is an awful lot of misinformation about that subject!

Cheers,

Jim

The cladding is pretty thin, but I've never put a micrometer on it. I don't know where our parts guy gets it. Cladding starts at the stern and works towards the bow so each overlap has its leading edge buried, think shingles on a roof. A really quality job will have the joints rolled together. The sheets are layed athwart ships from the waterline to the keel, making vertical seams. At least that's how I've always seen it done. The guy we subcontract to do this is an extremely salty old caulker who used to caulk minesweepers for the Navy. The only person I would ever hire for cladding or caulking. Sounds like Blue really knows his stuff too. Not much call for copper bottoms anymore, but it does happen. I have helped Mark (the caulker) some over the years, and I did one myself many years ago when I was in boatbuilding school. It was a 36' steam launch. Sure looks beautiful when finished, and then you can laugh at the worm. Till you ground your boat and peel a plate or two anyway...

[Jim Cate]

Minaret,

Thanks for that... very interesting. I'm glad that our western red cedar hull is protected by a lot of epoxy and a bit of glass. A couple of years ago we struck something with the skeg and sprung a strip of glass about 2x6 inches. By the time I got the boat on the hard a few weeks later there were a few small entry holes. Scary!

Anyway, it is fascinating that your yard which does mirror finish anti fouling for the racers also still does coppering. A great world around the waterfront!

Cheers,

Jim

[Blue Stocking]

Jim, some time back I commented on some installation method.
Put "chippie" in the search function, and it comes up.
Minaret is correct again, we applied a layer of muslin cloth squeegeed into hot bitumen IIRC.
It was along time ago
Minaret, would love a photo next time you do this.
Boats were 52 ft, not 62ft.

[CharlieCobra]

Minaret, I didn't think anybody still did copper cladding. Would like to add that too our list of services someday.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by CharlieCobra

Minaret, I didn't think anybody still did copper cladding. Would like to add that too our list of services someday.

If you ever have a request contact me and I'll give you our guys #. He loves to do a copper bottom but it's pretty rare that it comes up. It is an extremely messy job, experience really pays. If you ever have to do it without an old timer like him around, find a roofer who specializes in flashing to help you.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Jim, some time back I commented on some installation method.
Put "chippie" in the search function, and it comes up.
Minaret is correct again, we applied a layer of muslin cloth squeegeed into hot bitumen IIRC.
It was along time ago
Minaret, would love a photo next time you do this.
Boats were 52 ft, not 62ft.

I do have some pictures somewhere, but most of them are pretty old and need to be scanned in. Maybe when I get back from this summers sailing...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Minaret,

Thanks for that... very interesting. I'm glad that our western red cedar hull is protected by a lot of epoxy and a bit of glass. A couple of years ago we struck something with the skeg and sprung a strip of glass about 2x6 inches. By the time I got the boat on the hard a few weeks later there were a few small entry holes. Scary!

Anyway, it is fascinating that your yard which does mirror finish anti fouling for the racers also still does coppering. A great world around the waterfront!

Cheers,

Jim

You are cold-molded I believe? A good construction method, a monocoque structure like that doesn't work underway and is just fine for coating or glass, as you know. A planked hull needs the Vaitses method if you don't want it to fail. I once had a 44' sloop in triple diagonal Port Orford cedar, I glassed it myself. How has the bond on your coating held up? WEST specifically states you are not to use it on Western Red, but I have had no problem in the past as long as you split coat thoroughly.
We do have fun working on boats. It is sad to see the classic woodies slowly get rarer and rarer though. When I first attended boat building school I did so to specialize in wood construction. Now I do vacuum bagged carbon more often than wood. Though I must admit part of that was just my fate, my buddies over at Jensen still do strictly wood and they get by. So do the guys over at Bakketun and Thomas, but they have the commercial Halibut schooner fleet to maintain. So it goes!

[Astral Blue]

This slightly diverts from the topic, but can be useful to the OP after the repairs are made.

I have recently read about attaching several sacrificial pieces of wood to the hull to prevent this nasty mollusk from feasting on the planks. The sacrificial wood is placed where most groudings would impact the hull, so the sacrificial wood is scraped as opposed to the planks.

What this essentially involves is obtaining a piece of fairly rot resistant wood and screwing it to areas such as keel or the deadwood (for boats without protruding keels). There is a worm-proof barrier between the sacrificial wood and the hull. Tarred roofing material can be used for this. The sacrificial wood is replaced as needed.

Has anyone here tried this? I'm curious to know whether it actually works.

[MV-Romnya]

Yes Astral Blue, my boat was built around 1951 and I purchased it early this year and when slipped we removed 10 feet of worm infested sacrificial wood and found one worm - replaced it with same size hard wood and am going to slip it again in November and replace the rest - that sacrificial wood does really work - only thing is I used seckaflex (marine silicon) between the wood and the keel - you mentioned tarred roofing material - is the seckflex just as good ? - MVR

[Blue Stocking]

If you enter "copper hull sheathing", you will get GlobalSecurity.org.
Vast amount of info about the history of this subject, and all its aspects.
Did you know that Paul Revere produced copper hull skins
The reference to Lord Nelson's Bermuda built ships is something of which we are very proud.
Our native cedar, Juniperous Bermudiana, is, very worm resistant, and is still prized today for keels for net dinghies.
My home is on the site of 18th century shipyards.

[Astrid]

Revere's rolling mill, I believe, produced the copper used for the USS Constitution.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by minaret

You are cold-molded I believe? A good construction method, a monocoque structure like that doesn't work underway and is just fine for coating or glass, as you know. A planked hull needs the Vaitses method if you don't want it to fail. I once had a 44' sloop in triple diagonal Port Orford cedar, I glassed it myself. How has the bond on your coating held up? WEST specifically states you are not to use it on Western Red, but I have had no problem in the past as long as you split coat thoroughly.
We do have fun working on boats. It is sad to see the classic woodies slowly get rarer and rarer though. When I first attended boat building school I did so to specialize in wood construction. Now I do vacuum bagged carbon more often than wood. Though I must admit part of that was just my fate, my buddies over at Jensen still do strictly wood and they get by. So do the guys over at Bakketun and Thomas, but they have the commercial Halibut schooner fleet to maintain. So it goes!

G'Day Minaret,

No, we're strip planked, not cold moulded. She's done in 25x25mm strips of Western Red, coved top and bottom, laid over laminated ring frames, glassed inside and out. She's about to have her 22nd birthday and has done well over 100K miles, from the Aleutians to Southwest Cape in Tassie. The resins were indeed West, and there have been no issues with the bond. I was not aware that West had "banned" WRC from use of their epoxies. As you likely know, we didn't build Insatiable II... she was done by Gary McAualy, a very talented shipwright, then in Noosa, Qld and now down here on the Clarence river. We're still good friends, and I will ask him if he was aware of that ban.

There are still some wooden boat schools around. There's one down in Tassie, at Franklin on the Huon River, and it has a waiting list for admission. The Wooden Boat Festival in Hobart (every other year) draws 200+ entries and thousands of visitors. Further, there are still lots of timber working boats down there, many maintained lovingly. In fact, one of the things that keeps drawing us back there are the traditional boats in daily use. When you get away from the PNW, perhaps you will voyage in this direction. I think you would find a lot of kindred souls both here and in NZed.

Cheers,

Jim

[awab]

hello friends
I had this experience not the first time.
Somebody ask a question and behind is a real problem and the with more and more answers the theme get out of control.
I understand that it is nice to talk about boats and what s around it.
I know the best would be to take the infested wood out and replace it. I am sure there is enough money in this world to pay for all this.
But I am also sure the theme was not dry rod. I have only in some spots some holes from this toredo. It will be dead by now. Now the question was how to deal with this.
I've had this boat for 12 years and I have solved a lot of problems already.

You guys talk about everything else but not solving this problem in matter of solving it.
Stay out of my question if you have nothing to say.

Sorry if this seams rude but I am not getting what I need.

thanks
peter

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Peter,

Seems to me that your question was indeed answered in posts 2 and 4. You don't seem interested in teh advice of a professional shipwright, and are looking for some easy way out. There are no free lunches nor easy ways out for worm damage.

Here on CF it is often the case that when the OP's question seems to have been answered, folks will drift away from the subject. Personally, I find this to often be a source of interesting information. I'm sorry that you find this offensive, but it is a fact of internet life.

And really mate, while you may have started this thread, you don't own it, so yes, I do find your response a bit rude... but because this is the internet, it does not bother me.

So, while I do hope that y ou "get what you need", I suggest that you simply skip over responses which you find not to your liking.

Cheers,

Jim