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Old 04-04-2012, 12:06   #1
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Winged Keel

I see there is an Oceanis 370 that has a winged Keel at 4' 2". Does someone out there know how the boat performs as to a full keel of 5' 1"?

Or just anyone who sails a wind keel:
do you like it
Are there pro's and con's...if so what are they.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:12   #2
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Re: Winged Keel

One con, for cruisers, is that some winged or bulbed keels will catch the anchor rode. Or maybe even the chain. Perhaps rarely, but capable of making a mess of things.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:16   #3
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Re: Winged Keel

Yes, more likely to hook a lobster trap line and hold onto it
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:45   #4
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Re: Winged Keel

going aground with a winged keel usually means you will be thoroughly stuck because of the area encased in mud. Almost guarantees a wait for the tide to float you off rather than kedging.

As far as sailing ability, probably won't make all that much difference unless you are a hardcore racer facing lots of windward courses. I've got a center board and almost never use it. Of course I try and assiduously follow the dictum, 'Only fools go to windward'.
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Old 04-04-2012, 13:27   #5
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Re: Winged Keel

Yes, getting the wing stuck into mud would be an issue.

I like my center board in my 30' Morgan. It is good to get those few extra degrees to wind when needed.

I'd prefer a center board over a winged keel. Just not a lot of boat in the 35 -36' range with a CB.
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Old 04-04-2012, 14:17   #6
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Re: Winged Keel

I have a 41' Hunter with a wing keel and 5 ft draft. I'm perfectly happy with it. I prefer the shoal draft over a deeper fin for coastal and Bahamas cruising. I'm sure it doesn't perform as well as a deeper draft, but everything is a compromise. Suitability depends on your purpose. The performance is acceptable to us.

I haven't grounded it hard (yet), so I can't comment on that aspect. I wonder if the people commenting on the keel getting stuck are speaking from experience or mere speculation? It is true that kedging won't work since heeling actually increases your draft slightly. Also, the wing may actually serve to deflect a crab/lobster pot line from the prop rather than catch it, so YMMV on that.

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Old 04-04-2012, 15:13   #7
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Re: Winged Keel

My last boat had a wing keel and it sailed great! But compared to most newer boats wings the one I had was massive!

I have a deep draft boat now and the only difference I feel is that the deep draft seems to stand up to gusts better.

And the first day on my wing keeled boat I went into the mud and can say for a fact; when its' in the mud its' in the mud!
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Old 04-04-2012, 15:21   #8
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Re: Winged Keel

The wing is GENERALLY a decent alternative to a deeper keel, for performance. As noted above, those with winged keels need to make sure their "Unlimited Towing" is up to date with Boat US.
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Old 04-04-2012, 17:46   #9
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Re: Winged Keel

So does the wing keel make this Oceanis 370 any less of a blue water boat
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Old 04-04-2012, 18:58   #10
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Re: Winged Keel

No....!
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Old 04-04-2012, 21:15   #11
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Re: Winged Keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWT View Post
So does the wing keel make this Oceanis 370 any less of a blue water boat
Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.

All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.

Cheers,

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Old 05-04-2012, 03:34   #12
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Re: Winged Keel

So the winged keel is not only weight down low but has some dynamic water flow properties about it?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:46   #13
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Re: Winged Keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.

All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim,

Where does one find such numbers on a 20 year old boat?
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Old 06-04-2012, 17:03   #14
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Re: Winged Keel

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Jim,

Where does one find such numbers on a 20 year old boat?
Good question! I would start with an query to the designer and/or the builder. These numbers would be developed during the design phase, but may never have reached the public (especially if they were not particularly encouraging values!).

If that approach is not successful, I really don't have any helpful suggestions. Perhaps one of the naval architects who peruse this forum might offer an idea. There is also a forum on boatdesign.net which would be a good place to post a query.

When we bought our current boat I approached the designer (Jon Sayer) with the same question. Unfortunately, his office had been broken into and both his computer and his stash of backup disks had been stolen -- his life's work gone -- and he could not supply the info. I hope this is a rare sort of problem, and that you have better luck!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 06-04-2012, 18:54   #15
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Re: Winged Keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.

All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.

Cheers,

Jim
at one time in my life, I raced Ultra-marathon Bicycle events.. and on one of the bicycles, and just for kicks, I laced the front wheel in a radial lace design..
stopped in a coffe shop often frequented by cyclest one Saturday morning to take a break, and after retrieving a cup of joe, walked back out front where three or four cyclest were gathered around my bike sharing thoughts on the lace patteren of the front wheel..
and the conversation between them was all about numbers, with remarks about the "G" force at 20MPH with a radial laced wheel and the failure point of the design..
One of the guys turned around and asked me of what my openion was on the design, and with all the cyclest looking on and waiting for me to rattle off some design criteria,
I told them, I did it because I thought it was pretty....

You're going to find those people that are so wrapped up in the numbers of what does what, and how it does it, that they forget what it was like to just go out and relax..
The wing keel is a good design, it has its drawbacks, but for the most part, its ok..
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