Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-06-2013, 17:03   #1
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Hello Cruisers,

The rather broad backside in the photo is the stern of our Swanson 42, Manera.

As you can see from the photo, there's rather a lot going on back there. She sports a pretty substantial set of davits, a radar and a wind generator (not visible in this photo, it is immediately above the radar), plus the gas bottle storage, some seating and lots of wind breakers. Since this photo was taken (on our delivery run) she has been simplified slightly as all of the whip antennas have gone, but that's all.

Manera has a decent coursemaster autopilot, but I would like to supplement it with a non-electronic system, such as a Fleming windvane system. However, with all that clutter at the stern, I can't see how I can make it work without somehow getting the windvane component up higher, say up near the wind generator. Does anybody know of a solution to this conundrum, is there maybe a form of wind steering that does not need the windvane to be located at the stern immediately above the servo blade? I am reluctant to change much at the stern, as what is there is VERY well thought out and built and works very well too.

Matt
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050427.jpg
Views:	319
Size:	153.1 KB
ID:	63293  
__________________

__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:17   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

My thoughts entirely but I don't think there is any windvane system that will workwith all you have going on back there especially with the dinghy in her davits. I'm more familiar with two systems, Monitor and RVG. Both require either a blade or a vane which has to have clear air to windward otherwise it won't work properly.

You also have a canoe stern which would place the vane gear quite a bit aft to clear your stern and then you'd have to get your dinghy a lot further aft to launch and retrieve. Maybe a combination electronic vane where the vane is at the top of your mast and relays information to your self steering device.

I hope others respond too.
kind regards,
__________________

__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:22   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: British Columbia, Mexico
Boat: S&S Hughes 38
Posts: 837
Images: 23
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

If you moved the dinghy to the foredeck you could probably get a Monitor or Hydrovane to work.Hydrovane comes with extra long ruddershaft option.
__________________
highseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:26   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,772
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

talk to caphorn about a custom built vane.......CapeHorn - Integrated Self-Steering System for Sailboats
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:28   #5
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
... and then you'd have to get your dinghy a lot further aft to launch and retrieve.
Oh bother, I had not considered that...
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:35   #6
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
talk to caphorn about a custom built vane.......CapeHorn - Integrated Self-Steering System for Sailboats

Thanks, I did not know about them. And I see that a number of their installations are pictured as offset from the boat's centreline, which might address a few of the problems I face. (The Swanson 42 does not seem to heel much so the upper side on a tack does not lift much.)
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:35   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: British Columbia, Mexico
Boat: S&S Hughes 38
Posts: 837
Images: 23
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Check out Hydrovanes website,they show all kinds of pictures of installations,some like yours.
__________________
highseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 17:51   #8
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Quote:
Originally Posted by highseas View Post
Check out Hydrovanes website,they show all kinds of pictures of installations,some like yours.
I just had a look. They certainly seem to be able to address the problems I face, but I am surprised to see a system where the wind alone is apparently powerful enough to adjust the course directly through a rudder. I guess it is a highly balanced blade, but I thought a servo would always be needed to provide enough power to adjust the course.

I will have a look through CF to see what people's real experience has been with these things.

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 22:43   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,432
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

If you move the dinghy to the deck, any number of vanes will work. Lots of canoe stern boats have vanes. If you dont move the dinghy, no vane will work. You cant have both. My 2 cents worth.____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 23:11   #10
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
If you move the dinghy to the deck, any number of vanes will work. Lots of canoe stern boats have vanes. If you dont move the dinghy, no vane will work. You cant have both. My 2 cents worth.____Grant.

... but... I just LOVE having the dinghy on the back. I can't imagine any other setup now I have tried this. I even managed to retrieve the dinghy while under way the other day. Doing nearly 5 knots at the time too!

(not planning to make a habit of this, I just wanted to know if it was possible.)


But you may well have a point... though the hydrovane site gave me some hope and when I checked CF I see mostly good feedback on the hydrovane system, the actual photo of a rig that included dinghy davits seems suspiciously lacking in dinghy...
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 23:19   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego
Boat: Fairweather Mariner/Westsail 39
Posts: 57
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Its simply a matter of sequencing. You don't need both of them there at the same time. You'll only really need the vane on long offshore passages, which is when you want the dingy on the foredeck.
__________________
squarerigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2013, 00:17   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

I keep my dinghy on the cabin top, upside down between the dodger and mast. It's not a lot of room but it keeps the stern open for the windvane.

A lot of people don't have wind vanes because of davits. To me one is about convenience and the other is about steering the boat. The latter wins if you're talking about ocean crossings.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2013, 09:59   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,432
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Squarerigger came up with a realistic solution. Even if you plan on ocean crossing, you still spend more time in port, than you do out at sea. If you dont plan on ocean crossing, then dont worry about a windvane. If your electrics die ( more often than most people think) on a coastal cruise, you can hand steer to a port to get things fixed. What is your intended use of your boat? _____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2013, 11:54   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

The davit system pictured looks to be totally unsafe for an ocean passage. The small diameter tubing looks like even moderate seas would end up with them pretzeled. Personally think having a boat in davits for any ocean crossing is asking for it.

The WindPilot Pacific Plus is an auxillary rudder vane that has worked very well for me. Just talked with a fellow who has one on a Westsail 42 and he's in love with his after 4 years in SoPac. The pendulum servo/vane section is easily removed in port so you could use the davits for coastal cruising, store the dinghy on deck and use the vane for passages.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2013, 20:00   #15
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

In no particular order here...

We plan to use the boat almost entirely for coastal cruising with the odd Bass Strait crossing from time to time.

So, the point about dropping into the nearest port for repairs is both valid AND has been our experience of the boat so far.

If I was venturing far from shore I would bring the tender in to the foredeck as suggested, but for our day to day sailing it is very convenient where it is. (I am actually going to replace the dinghy some time in the not too distant future as the current one is a bit buggered from being used as a bumper bag once too often, the boat's previous owners had a VERY squeezy pen to negotiate and the dinghy paid the price).

The current autopilot is great, but uses a lot of power, hence my interest in windvane steering if practical. I solo a LOT of the time, so a redundant autopilot is also worthwhile investment. In theory at least I am never far from shore, but as I mentioned in a recent post, it took me 18 hours to get home from 35 miles away, and if I had not had an autopilot then I would have been in trouble.

I think, looking at the hydrovane, that it could work with my setup, so I will investigate that further. I will also look into the other brands mentioned. Failing all that, I might end up building my own when time permits, though that would only be a last resort.

Matt
__________________

__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
steering, windvane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.