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Old 29-06-2013, 20:09   #16
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

In 30,000 miles we have only seen one boat with davits and a vane and we did not get close enough to see what kind of vane it was or to get a picture. The vane was mounted very high above the davits. We could not see the linkage to what was in the water. Looked very custom.
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Old 29-06-2013, 22:53   #17
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Matt,

Banjo (also Swanson 42) has a Fleming windvane. I considered the possibility of mounting the dinghy on davits, and came across all the issues mentioned earlier. The vane on a canoe stern sticks right out, and clearance of the dinghy is the crucial issue. I considered telescopic davit arms, etc, but gave it all away as too hard. It is either wind vane or davits on the stern. In the end, I went folding portabote which is folded, strapped to the deck on passage, towed when coastal hopping, supplemented by an inflatable kayak.

An idea I have not totally discarded, is stern quarter davits. The portabote is light and might be carried on the quarter during coastal hopping. The davits to be folded away when on passage. I don't like towing the dinghy at any time.

I am also in the process of improving Banjo's steering options, and a few of my thoughts may be useful to you.

The emergency tiller on Banjo mounts in the aft cabin, and by itself must be operated by somebody in the aft cabin. I am organising a set of blocks and line to take control of the tiller to the wind vane drum on the wheel. Then the tiller can be operated by turning the wheel, or by pulling on the line if the drum is decoupled from the wheel. I know this will work, as the builder of Banjo put in strong points in exactly the right places to take the blocks.

Further, both the wind vane control line and the tiller control line can be taken to the wind vane drum at the same time, so the wind vane controls the tiller. Don't know if this will work yet. Can't see why not.

Further, I am going to automate the wind vane by installing a tiller pilot to operate the vane. This arrangement has been described by various people, just google on "automating the wind vane". I have the components, but have yet to install them and try it out. On the basis of comments by people who have done so, I am confident that automating the wind vane will work. The advantages of this arrangement are many: second autopilot to backup the main CourseMaster ; an autopilot that draws very little power (the force to turn the rudder is provided by the servo pendulum); and an autopilot that can control the emergency tiller.

Lee
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Old 29-06-2013, 23:32   #18
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I keep my dinghy on the cabin top, upside down between the dodger and mast. It's not a lot of room but it keeps the stern open for the windvane.

A lot of people don't have wind vanes because of davits. To me one is about convenience and the other is about steering the boat. The latter wins if you're talking about ocean crossings.
Yup...Same here. Not sure if you have a hard one on deck but I do. Ya...it was a sacrifice for the windvane, which is a 600 series Sailomat. I've been using windvanes and autopilots for well over 15 years now and the relief they give crew is unquestionable. My main peeve with the dink up front is seeing ahead but you get use to it. Looking futher ahead and around the dodger. Here's my set up...CS
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:16   #19
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Nice boat and very workmanlike fit out aft but I do agree that having your dingy in aft davits is just asking for trouble in your waters.

Maybe hang it off side davits when in protected waters and bring onto deck for outside. Better yet, change to an inflatable and store on cabin top.
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:44   #20
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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Originally Posted by banjoship View Post
Matt,


I am also in the process of improving Banjo's steering options, and a few of my thoughts may be useful to you.

The emergency tiller on Banjo mounts in the aft cabin, and by itself must be operated by somebody in the aft cabin....

Lee

Lee, for once I have a chance to (hopefully) return some of the excellent and helpful advice you have given me.

Manera has a great emergency tiller system, and though at first glance it seems rather crude, it works very well, and is another of those things that the main owner of the boat did so well.

He made a long (and strong, and HEAVY) pole with a universal joint on one end and a welded "T" socket on the other, in two pieces. The top piece is fed through a hole in the rear deck (which uses an old bronze/stainless, not sure which) diesel filler fitting as a bush. The bottom piece is plugged into the top piece, secured by strong pin/bolt and the uni joint on the bottom of the bottom piece connects directly to the top of the rudder post (square top) after lifting the rear cabin mattress to one side. So now, there is a strong tube running from the top of the rudder post to the topside of the rear deck. Then finally another sturdy tube is poked through that "T" fitting and presto, a direct action tiller. Crude, heavy, but VERY functional.

Could not see how I could improve on it if I tried!

Matt
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:49   #21
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Yup...Same here. Not sure if you have a hard one on deck but I do. Ya...it was a sacrifice for the windvane, which is a 600 series Sailomat. I've been using windvanes and autopilots for well over 15 years now and the relief they give crew is unquestionable. My main peeve with the dink up front is seeing ahead but you get use to it. Looking futher ahead and around the dodger. Here's my set up...CS
That's a lovely boat, very similar from my layman's perspective to the South Coast 36 which I VERY NEARLY bought in preference to the Swanson 42. (I felt the South Coast had a much nicer fit out down below too.)

Nice solution to carrying the kayak, though in the pen where I stay it would be wiped out in minutes, I am still coming to grips with manoeuvring Manera.

Are you happy with the Sailomat?

Matt
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:54   #22
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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..but I do agree that having your dingy in aft davits is just asking for trouble in your waters.
I assume by "my waters" you mean Bass Strait? The Gulf St Vincent, which is our main stomping ground is very sheltered, and I feel a bit silly clumping around in it in the Swanson.

We had the dinghy on the back bringing the boat home through Bass Strait, and I did take a while to stop it swinging around. Of course I was VERY careful about the weather for that trip and we were never more than 24 hours from a port. But I can see the sense in stowing it elsewhere on serious journeys.
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:56   #23
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
The vane was mounted very high above the davits. We could not see the linkage to what was in the water. Looked very custom.
Yes, I am wondering if I can modify a Fleming or similar to get the height to clear the dinghy The Hydrovane looked like it could be done, not so easy with the Fleming though.

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Old 30-06-2013, 00:59   #24
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

Capehorn will make a tower to your specification, they also claim that they work well when offset.
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Old 30-06-2013, 08:35   #25
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

GI, you should have a look at the AutoHelm vane, now sold by Scanmar in California.

This is an aux rudder/trim tab vane with the trim tab driven by pull-pull cables from the air vane. The cables can be quite long, and this allows the vane to be raised into clear air. Might solve your problems... but I too worry about your davits from a structural point of view. For us, the dangers of davits have always outweighed their undeniable convenience.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 30-06-2013, 17:02   #26
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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GI, you should have a look at the AutoHelm vane, now sold by Scanmar in California.
Thanks Jim, that looks even better!
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Old 30-06-2013, 17:08   #27
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

I find it intersting that all of the models I have looked at so far have a reasonably large clearance from the hull of the boat. As in, they all have mounting frames the bring them well clear of the hull, sometimes a foot or more at the closest point.

I would have thought that a much closer fit to the hull would be stronger. Less leverage, and less likely to get wiped out in manouvering..

I wonder why they do this? In most cases I looked at there was no clear advantage to the windvane's air flow.
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Old 30-06-2013, 17:27   #28
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

alpha 3000, nothing else needed.
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Old 30-06-2013, 17:36   #29
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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alpha 3000, nothing else needed.
Thanks, but that appears to be an electronic unit, and I already have a decent coursemaster, I want a second non-electronic solution.

Or have I missed something

Matt
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Old 30-06-2013, 18:13   #30
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Re: Windvane steering on a cluttered stern

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Thanks, but that appears to be an electronic unit, and I already have a decent coursemaster, I want a second non-electronic solution.

Or have I missed something

Matt
not sure where yours mounts, but this mounts to the tiller,
alpha 3000 most reliable autopilot ever made. more so then a wind vane.
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