Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2019, 15:37   #46
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 13,896
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
An alternative that is even better in terms of redundancy and reliability is to purchase a back up foot operated deck switch, but rather than the most common type that operates via the solenoid, instead install a model that can handle the full windlass current. The advantage is that if you have a solenoid failure (which is the most common windlass fault) the windlass will still work. Having both a wired and wireless controller provides some redundancy, but with a single solenoid there is still a shared failure point that can prevent retrieving the chain even if the windlass itself is functioning normally. So a foot switch that can operate without a solenoid is an option that is worth considering.
As usual, Nolex has good thoughts about anchoring systems. The above quote is spot on IMO. We've had Maxwell foot switches as the sole means of activating the windlass for all the 16 years we've owned this boat. They are still working normally, and we live at anchor, so they've had a lot of exercise.

I was given a nice big solenoid a while back, and I sometimes think of installing it with some manner of cockpit control. Very useful when singlehanding as others have mentioned... but it will be in parallel with the foot switches and they will still be the primary means of operation if I ever get around to the task.
The Maxwell switches, besides being very robust have built in covers that preclude accidental activation, so that worry is much reduced.

Finally, for those that see no use for power down: our boat,like some others, has a deep chain locker with no above deck access. Thus, we get a chain castle (high, conical pile of chain) every time we weigh anchor. In rough seas, sometimes that pile collapses, and sometimes this buries the fall from the windlass under a couple of hundred pounds of chain. That's when power down really helps, for it will drag the chain from under the heap with ease. One really appreciates that function at times.

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Sandy Bay, Hobart,
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 16:45   #47
Registered User
 
Red Sky's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Boat: Caliber 40 LRC
Posts: 406
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by SofiaB View Post
I have a Quick HRC 1002 controller as I upgraded to a chain counter model. Simple two button, rugged, waterproof, with holder, instructions, box... used just a few times. Make offer.


SofiaB, Have you received my PM?
__________________

Red Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 17:33   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tarpon Springs fl
Boat: Morgan 384/ 1982
Posts: 287
Images: 3
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

This is really easy : Go look At truck front winches , say JEEP there is a remote for a 12 volt winch .
Its a wireless get a Lanyard . Its lees than 30 dollars remote 12 volt motors just reverse the leads and the motor runs backwards. It comes with the connection block and remote.
You could spend 400 hundred dollars for the same thing !
stnick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 17:37   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NZ & OZ
Posts: 90
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
But on most boats the house bank is larger than the engine start battery.. On our boat, by almost a factor of 5. So, on that day when the engine will not start, and the engine is NOT powering the windlass, and you really need the power in that windlass to actually bring the boat up to the anchor, break it out and raise it... well, the house bank is a better choice.

Jim
Agreed, use the house bank or possibly having a dedicated windlass battery are better choices than the start battery.
cj88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 18:42   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chesapeake & southern new jersey
Boat: Eastward ho 24, Downeaster 32, scarab sprint 18
Posts: 301
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Thanks for all the replies looks like I'm gonna add the
QCK CHC1102M it's up down a counter and a flash light to boot. Can't find directions for it's install but I'm hopeing it'll have a coverd plug and also hopeing I can plug it in, in the cockpit and walk to the bow to plug it in there too. I guess the switch comes with a selonoid that will be normally open and will close when switched up or down? I didn't get any directions with the tigress but it's cave with a big box with 3 studs I assume this is a reversing box...I don't understand why these big companies sell these expensive products and don't give you the best directions that's a rant for another day..it was mentioned that the foot switches bypass the selonoid and provide better redundancy. I don't like the jokes in the deck but since I'm recoreing I'll make a solid glass home for one. They do have SS fully covered foot switches, and as mentioned for washing it'll be nice to use the foot. . Not I just gotta get some schematics or a wiring diagram to see how this things gonna come together.
Eastward ho 24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 19:18   #51
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 2,024
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

I haven't looked recently but at one time you could buy solenoids that had two shafts sticking out of the top for deck switches: just a way of manually moving the relays and not a separate switch. This is very simple, but of course a single point of failure as well.




Greg
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 20:13   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Diego
Boat: Kelly Peterson 46
Posts: 20
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Great question, and as you will normally find in the forum, ďit dependsĒ. Iím not saying my way is best, but it works in our boat.
I installed a new windlass before departing to cruise for several years. We originally only had an UP foot switch on deck. I installed a down as well and ran an up/down control to the helm. It works very well for us, and I wouldnít change it. Some things to consider:
1. The foot switches must be located in a safe and convenient location. Drill new holes if necessary...
2. We basically live on anchor, and are constantly in the move. ,Iíve Never used the helm switch. But... we have a 46í center cockpit and there are two of us. The visibility from the bow makes it the best place to drop the anchor. Chain fouls at the most inconvenient time, and you will only see that at the bow. If I was single handing, i would still drop from the bow IF safe. If not, i have the switch at the helm.
Iím not opposed to a remote, but itís one more thing to fail, and a foot switch is dead easy to repair or jury rig.
Good luck and enjoy!
bradfordharley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 21:38   #53
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,563
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastward ho 24 View Post
Thanks for all the replies looks like I'm gonna add the
QCK CHC1102M it's up down a counter and a flash light to boot. Can't find directions for it's install but I'm hopeing it'll have a coverd plug and also hopeing I can plug it in, in the cockpit and walk to the bow to plug it in there too. I guess the switch comes with a selonoid that will be normally open and will close when switched up or down? I didn't get any directions with the tigress but it's cave with a big box with 3 studs I assume this is a reversing box...I don't understand why these big companies sell these expensive products and don't give you the best directions that's a rant for another day..it was mentioned that the foot switches bypass the selonoid and provide better redundancy. I don't like the jokes in the deck but since I'm recoreing I'll make a solid glass home for one. They do have SS fully covered foot switches, and as mentioned for washing it'll be nice to use the foot. . Not I just gotta get some schematics or a wiring diagram to see how this things gonna come together.
The quick wired remotes come with a connector. I would advise that it be put inside a forward locker out of the weather and the controller left connected and protected. The remote does not come with a solenoid, that is something that needs to be matched to the windlass power draw.
Most deck foot switches also go through a solenoid. A few people use how amperage switches directly.
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 02:37   #54
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 13,896
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Most deck foot switches also go through a solenoid. A few people use how amperage switches directly.
Paul, SOME foot switches go to solenoids. The whole point of my earlier posts was that Maxwell foot switches are direct, high current switches, are very reliable and avoid the need for solenoids which are relatively high failure items. Nolex's suggestion about direct foot switches plus a solenoid controlled by some form of remote (echoed by me) is a great compromise for convenience and reliability.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Sandy Bay, Hobart,
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 03:37   #55
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 11,297
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Foot switches that will work without a solenoid will have a high current or amperage rating. This rating should be higher than the maximum windlass current consumption.

There are only two companies that produce high current rated marine foot switches (that I am aware of). Maxwell and Muir.

The Maxwell switch is rated at 200A (intermittent) and 120A (continuous) although confusingly the same switch is also distributed by Vetus and rated at 150A. The Muir switch is rated at 150A. There is a chance all the switches are exactly the same with different labels attached.

Switches that are designed to work only with a solenoid will have a much lower current rating, typically around 5A. This is an important distinction because Maxwell (and many other companies) also sell lower current foot switches. You need to purchase the correct model. You can use one of the higher current switch with a solenoid if you wish, but the lower current switches will be destroyed if you install them without a solenoid.

As solenoid failure is quite common, it is worth thinking about a strategy to manage this problem especially on a larger boat. A spare solenoid is a useful part to carry, but with some planning you can bypass the solenoid. If you have a workable solution this avoids having to carry a spare part. As the solenoid is often located where it it difficult replace this is also often a quicker fix. A foot switch that works without a solenoid is the ultimate easy solution, but there are other ways.

The solenoid is just a switch that works with high current. Bypassing the solenoid is not rocket science, but as the solenoid works to switch both up and down it can be a little confusing. So take a minute to understand yours (there are a couple of different types depending on how the windlass motor is designed).
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 05:31   #56
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in St. Augustine FL
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,314
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
But on most boats the house bank is larger than the engine start battery.. On our boat, by almost a factor of 5. So, on that day when the engine will not start, and the engine is NOT powering the windlass, and you really need the power in that windlass to actually bring the boat up to the anchor, break it out and raise it... well, the house bank is a better choice.



Jim


Not to mention that some charging systems will give priority to the house bank and start charging the start battery a bit later.

I like a dedicated start battery. Anything that potentially complicates my ability to start the engine is a bad thing.
__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 08:50   #57
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 11,297
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

The anchor windlass can be run successfully from either the house or the start bank.

There are pros and cons for each choice. Whichever system you choose, the rest of the charging system needs to be set up with this in mind. If the start battery is being used for the windlass it is important that the engine charging system prioritises the start bank and that other charge sources such as solar or a generator can also charge the start bank, if required. An emergancy system to start the engine via the house bank is also essential, although this is sensible for all boats.

The main advantage of using the start bank for the windlass is that voltage spikes produced as the windlass turns off, and low battery voltage under high windlass loads cannot effect the instruments, which will be running on the separate house bank. Raymarine chart-plotters, for example, were traditionally sensitive to low voltage. If the windlass drives the house bank below say 11.0-11.5v the older Raymarine chart-plotters would crash. The main drawback of using the start bank to power the windlass is that the smaller battery bank will have more voltage drop under load and the windlass voltage will be lower. The power produced by electric motors is very voltage dependent, so this means less power. There are many other pros and cons, but these are the main issues.

Our old boat had the windlass running from the start bank and our new boat has the windlass running from the house bank. Modern marine equipment is a little less sensitive to low voltage problems (although arguably more sensitive to voltage spikes) and having a 24v system helps reduce any low voltage issue.
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 09:31   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 281
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Will a single dedicated windlass battery located in the bow be sufficient to raise anchor in "normal" conditions before becoming discharged? Just wondering about that option, using very short heavy gauge cables plus a lighter gauge boat length recharging cable.
Dymaxion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 10:20   #59
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 11,297
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymaxion View Post
Will a single dedicated windlass battery located in the bow be sufficient to raise anchor in "normal" conditions before becoming discharged? Just wondering about that option, using very short heavy gauge cables plus a lighter gauge boat length recharging cable.
Yes, this is an option that can work. It is often used on older boats installing an electric anchor winch where previously the anchor was raised by hand, or with a manual winch.

Overall it is worst of the options, but feeding large electrical cables to the bow is difficult and sometimes impractical, so it can sometimes be the best solution.

The main drawbacks are:
There is another battery to replace/maintain.
Without the benefit of a large current input from the alternator, the battery has a hard and sometimes short life (especially if a battery to battery charger is not used. A simple thin cable will undercharge the bow battery).
The windlass is dependent on the correct functioning of a single battery and its charging system, so there are more failure points.

Thick cable is expensive and difficult to feed, but it is reliable and requires no maintenance.

However, there is no simple answer that fits all boats. There are sometimes other complications, such as a bow thruster. Here even with very thick 120mm2 cable the voltage drop can be excessive especially if the batteries are located near the stern. A battery bank near the bow is needed and it is logical for this to also supply the windlass.

The above is a rather superficial look at a complex choice, but it provides a starting point.
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 15:08   #60
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 1,332
Re: Windlass Foot switches, remote, or hand switch for new windlass

We run ours off the start but our starts are truck batteries x 2 @ 24v plus our Victron inverter/charger has a separate outlet specifically for trickle charging the start battery.

Engine always started first before anchor windlass used.
__________________

Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
remote, wind, windlass

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Windlass foot switches AbelCMann Construction, Maintenance & Refit 30 25-10-2018 17:23
[SOLD] Imtra Windlass Foot Switches pelagicII Classifieds Archive 1 23-10-2015 12:22
For Sale: Imtra windlass foot switches pitlaw Classifieds Archive 3 30-09-2014 17:50
For Sale: Lofrans foot switches FSmith Classifieds Archive 0 24-04-2012 16:46
For Sale: Hand-Held Remote for Maxwell Windlass Greg S Classifieds Archive 1 22-06-2011 06:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.