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Old 17-06-2013, 05:35   #31
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Waterways need to be done around hardware. If you mount a piece of hardware on non skid instead of smooth, the bedding will fail much faster, in part because of the moisture held against the seam by the skid. Once you've laid out water ways around all hardware for this reason, it doesn't take much more to properly finish the job. It looks nice and doesn't take long. Anything less is just lazy.
What's wrong with being lazy? Honestly!

The term waterways is a new one for me from this thread, but the concept of leaving a gap around hardware and certainly not painting non-slip under anything bolted down (for the reasons you state) is quite the norm in my experience........and leaving that gap around hardware is about laziness! (easier than taping up hardware as can usually pinch at least a few straight lines ), in addition to (as you state) about looking nice......which is of course where we came in .

Am still entirely unconvinced of the water draining properties of these "waterways" (and the water retention properties of non-slip paint), for the reasons that Jim Cate stated above.
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Old 17-06-2013, 06:36   #32
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

Consulted a builder friend who has built from 25 to 83 ft. A dozen of the 25s. His non-skid was placed by using multiple silicon mats with the raised pattern. These had to be removed for release waxing between layups. To make the adjacent edges not so critical to line up, he left 2" spaces, and called them waterways. ther ya are.
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Old 17-06-2013, 07:20   #33
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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To make the adjacent edges not so critical to line up, he left 2" spaces, and called them waterways. ther ya are.
Which means less time and therefore less cost = cheaper and quicker. Not of course squllions involved but every little does add up, and IMO nothing wrong with that - as long does not compromise the boat (and in this case does not put the "waterways" somewhere that are a slip hazard - which seems to have been the case for OP).

and of course having "waterways" means that when green water lands on deck it don't stay there until it evaporates .
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Old 17-06-2013, 16:14   #34
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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Waterways need to be done around hardware. If you mount a piece of hardware on non skid instead of smooth, the bedding will fail much faster, in part because of the moisture held against the seam by the skid. Once you've laid out water ways around all hardware for this reason, it doesn't take much more to properly finish the job. It looks nice and doesn't take long. Anything less is just lazy.
Minaret -- Got any tips for accomplishing this around round deck fills? Mine have molded (orig. gel) non-skid all the way to the edge of the deck fills. When I replaced them last year, it made for a ragged edge that I'm afraid will allow water penetration over time.
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Old 17-06-2013, 17:01   #35
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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Minaret -- Got any tips for accomplishing this around round deck fills? Mine have molded (orig. gel) non-skid all the way to the edge of the deck fills. When I replaced them last year, it made for a ragged edge that I'm afraid will allow water penetration over time.



This is exactly what I mean, deck fills are a classic example. You really don't want them to leak.



Depends on the shape of the intended waterway. It might just be a big circle, or if its near the deck edge (common), it's waterway might tie into the deck edge waterway (preferable). Regardless, you basically lay out the waterway and triple tape it, finishing with a protective layer of duct back a hair. Then grind in the waterway. I often use a 1" or 2" Roloc disc in a pneumatic right angle with a regulator on the separator, to allow you to dial it down for precision grinding. You can freehand like this, or you can use a router or die grinder with a pattern bit (bearing on top) and pattern to cut a perfect waterway. Be careful setting depth of cut like this. A PC laminate trimmer is my preferred tool for this method. Straight edges or easy curves can also be cut nicely by hot gluing a batten to the deck and running a block against the batten to carve a perfect line.

Once the waterway is cut/ground, brush it with a few coats of gelcoat (surface seal in last coat only) for a sanding primer and block it out to 180, paying extra attention to the bevel edge of the transfer from smooth to skid pad. Very small blocks required (ply scraps). Then either prime and paint or gelcoat to finish. Pretty easy to make it look factory if you know what you're doing. Totally worth doing, I would never bed a deck fill on skid. Well, not on my boat anyway. Done it plenty on clients boats, and I always grumble about it.
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Old 17-06-2013, 17:10   #36
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

Make good sense. If you calculate the surface area of a dead flat area to that of an area that has a multitude of bumps and undulation, I know there small but they must add up. Clearly one has to have more opportunity to leak than the other. Plus they do add a certain esthetic to the large field of most deck's. I have a raised deck boat the there is a lot of deck, you don't want it to be all blindingly white, so we knock it down some and add the waterways for functionality and esthetics. Don't knock the esthetic. When we do the current uglification of the American waterways ensues. Have you spent a day in a marina looking for a thoughtful Sheer?
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Old 17-06-2013, 22:43   #37
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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This is exactly what I mean, deck fills are a classic example. You really don't want them to leak.



Depends on the shape of the intended waterway. It might just be a big circle, or if its near the deck edge (common), it's waterway might tie into the deck edge waterway (preferable). Regardless, you basically lay out the waterway and triple tape it, finishing with a protective layer of duct back a hair. Then grind in the waterway. I often use a 1" or 2" Roloc disc in a pneumatic right angle with a regulator on the separator, to allow you to dial it down for precision grinding. You can freehand like this, or you can use a router or die grinder with a pattern bit (bearing on top) and pattern to cut a perfect waterway. Be careful setting depth of cut like this. A PC laminate trimmer is my preferred tool for this method. Straight edges or easy curves can also be cut nicely by hot gluing a batten to the deck and running a block against the batten to carve a perfect line.

Once the waterway is cut/ground, brush it with a few coats of gelcoat (surface seal in last coat only) for a sanding primer and block it out to 180, paying extra attention to the bevel edge of the transfer from smooth to skid pad. Very small blocks required (ply scraps). Then either prime and paint or gelcoat to finish. Pretty easy to make it look factory if you know what you're doing. Totally worth doing, I would never bed a deck fill on skid. Well, not on my boat anyway. Done it plenty on clients boats, and I always grumble about it.
I figured you'd have the answer! Strangely, I've got beautifully done waterways around all my winches & many other hardware items, but none around deck fills, deck edges, or the inner staysail tracks. Unfortunately, my deck fills are very close to the toerails -- I thought I'd tape as you suggest, then take a pair of dividers and draw a 1" wide circle around the fill to the toerail on each side. Then sand/grind, and gelcoat to a gloss finish. Will probably turn into another PITA boat job but what else is new? Yet another 'learning' experience, right?!

You're going to force me to buy that Dremel . . . errrr . . . I mean that rotary tool after all!

Another idea, although the aesthetics may be worrisome:

Make a template to cut the same shape out of a piece of 1/4" white starboard. Hole-saw the middle to allow the fill to drop into it and seal the flange with 4200 or whatever. Bevel the edges of the starboard to transition to the deck nonskid. This would also raise the fill up a bit to facilitate water flow away from the fitting. Not sure what, if anything, can or should be done aesthetically with the starboard once finished.
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Old 17-06-2013, 23:21   #38
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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I figured you'd have the answer! Strangely, I've got beautifully done waterways around all my winches & many other hardware items, but none around deck fills, deck edges, or the inner staysail tracks. Unfortunately, my deck fills are very close to the toerails -- I thought I'd tape as you suggest, then take a pair of dividers and draw a 1" wide circle around the fill to the toerail on each side. Then sand/grind, and gelcoat to a gloss finish. Will probably turn into another PITA boat job but what else is new? Yet another 'learning' experience, right?!

You're going to force me to buy that Dremel . . . errrr . . . I mean that rotary tool after all!

Another idea, although the aesthetics may be worrisome:

Make a template to cut the same shape out of a piece of 1/4" white starboard. Hole-saw the middle to allow the fill to drop into it and seal the flange with 4200 or whatever. Bevel the edges of the starboard to transition to the deck nonskid. This would also raise the fill up a bit to facilitate water flow away from the fitting. Not sure what, if anything, can or should be done aesthetically with the starboard once finished.


The starboard certainly would be quicker and easier. But you sure are right about the aesthetics. Boats should be pretty. Dividers are your friend when it comes to waterways. I make all my radii that way.
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Old 17-06-2013, 23:42   #39
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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The starboard certainly would be quicker and easier. But you sure are right about the aesthetics. Boats should be pretty. Dividers are your friend when it comes to waterways. I make all my radii that way.
Something about life being too short to sail an ugly boat, right?!

Speaking of, I was recently offered some advice about an easy way of re-creating nonskid with gelcoat. You're already suspicious, I know. Anyway, it was to mix it with cabosil until ketchup consistency, then use a suitably textured roller to create an 'orange peel' or 'stipply' type surface. I would love to see pics if anyone has successfully tried this. I'm always suspicious of any technique that sounds easy when it comes to boat repairs/improvements, but I am often also susceptible to overthinking stuff. Smooth gel-coated or painted waterways b'twn nonskid sections, of course, just to try & avoid any thread drift here . . . .
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Old 17-06-2013, 23:54   #40
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

to sum up then - they're called waterways cos it's cheaper and easier to apply non slip in different forms by leaving a space between standardised areas and some bright spark came up with the name 'waterways' to make it sound like they actually serve some utilitarian purpose - to assist water run off - which they clearly in practice dont. They probably put a few people in hospital in an average year but thats ok 'cos boats should be pretty. Thats what makes me cranky - when i'm stumbling down a heaving deck on a dirty sea trying to sort out some bloody cocked up sheets on the foredeck and i have to keep a mental map of all the nasty slippery little "waterways" in my head or I'm likely to go over the side, i dont really care if the boat looks nice and i really dont like the fact that its laid out like a minefield because someone thought painting it like that actually served some useful purpose, and a bunch of other people are prepared to support that argument without giving it much thought, it seems. But thats just me being silly.
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Old 18-06-2013, 00:31   #41
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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to sum up then - they're called waterways cos it's cheaper and easier to apply non slip in different forms by leaving a space between standardised areas and some bright spark came up with the name 'waterways' to make it sound like they actually serve some utilitarian purpose - to assist water run off - which they clearly in practice dont. They probably put a few people in hospital in an average year but thats ok 'cos boats should be pretty. Thats what makes me cranky - when i'm stumbling down a heaving deck on a dirty sea trying to sort out some bloody cocked up sheets on the foredeck and i have to keep a mental map of all the nasty slippery little "waterways" in my head or I'm likely to go over the side, i dont really care if the boat looks nice and i really dont like the fact that its laid out like a minefield because someone thought painting it like that actually served some useful purpose, and a bunch of other people are prepared to support that argument without giving it much thought, it seems. But thats just me being silly.


If you are actually slipping on a 1" waterway, you must be the size of a leprechaun. I've never slipped on a waterway, never had a client complain about it, never even heard of it happening.


And they actually do help the deck stay dry. Watch morning dew dry on a deck, you'll see the waterways dry hours before the skid. It does make a difference.
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Old 18-06-2013, 00:53   #42
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

If you are actually slipping on a 1" waterway, you must be the size of a leprechaun. I've never slipped on a waterway, never had a client complain about it, never even heard of it happening.

fair comment (about the 1") but the waterways i just painted out were nearer 2" and guess what - you have heard of it happening 'cos thats the first thing in the thread, what, you think i made this up for my own amusement - dude i dont putt around a marina in a pushbutton gin palace, my boat tips its bucket on me at sea and frequently
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Old 21-06-2013, 21:45   #43
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

"But thats just me being silly." Don't forget the BS part.
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Old 24-06-2013, 01:49   #44
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Re: Why Leave The Borders Between Deck Grip Paint

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"But thats just me being silly." Don't forget the BS part.
no mate, you can have the monopoly on that, you're full of it
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