Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-10-2015, 18:15   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
This is affectionatly known as...Boat Yoga

An often overlooked aspect of boat shopping. Less overlooked by those of us having had to bleed and use mirrors while doing yacht work in our youth.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
__________________

__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 19:35   #47
Registered User
 
Clamdigger's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 160
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveningTide View Post
Derfy- You are correct in your thinking. I just knew I didn't have a lot of years to learn everything. Now I know there are boat yards that can restore an old boat to almost new condition for a lot less than a new boat. Undoubtedly I will take my losses when it comes time to sell. Maybe that time will be in the far future. Maybe I wil die while out sailing and won't have to worry about it. Maybe I will give the boat to some young fellow who knows that Dana's are meant to be sailed (not tied to a dock and looking pretty).
I certainly know how to sail, and would rather be out sailing on the open ocean than most anywhere else. I also have desired a Dana 24 since it came out, but alas, it was always out of my reach financially. To me it's the Hinckley of small boats under 30ft. That compliment alone tells you I'm from new England, and have plenty of Sea Miles under my keel.

So please contact me directly by PM when you decide to place her under a new Captain. I'd certainly aim to circumnavigate in her!
__________________

__________________
Clamdigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 19:46   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Boat: Morgan 44 CC
Posts: 69
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveningTide View Post
Derfy- You are correct in your thinking. I just knew I didn't have a lot of years to learn everything. Now I know there are boat yards that can restore an old boat to almost new condition for a lot less than a new boat. Undoubtedly I will take my losses when it comes time to sell. Maybe that time will be in the far future. Maybe I wil die while out sailing and won't have to worry about it. Maybe I will give the boat to some young fellow who knows that Dana's are meant to be sailed (not tied to a dock and looking pretty).
Well, Pacific Seacraft is a great brand. That will help come time to sell. Some brands and models really hold value over time. Other plummet.

My problem is that I don't like the new boats.

I am looking at 70s and 80s vintage boats that have been refitted. I dig molded keels and skeg-hung rudders. It is tough finding one that won't be a boatload of problems, though. It really is.

I look at the $$$ per cruising day. Boat work days don't count. Realistically, it can be many 100's of dollars per day to own and maintain a well-found cruising yacht.

Makes me just want to go charter and drop off the keys when I am done.
__________________
derfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 23:36   #49
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post

Life is expensive. Prioritize.
Life is short....Prioritize!
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 01:49   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Boat: Passage 24/30 Cutter
Posts: 461
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Regarding Halyards and Sheets; Do try an Industrial Rigging Shop. They sell not only s.s.cable, thimbles, and other rigging, they also sell many types and sizes of synthetic Brand Name lines used on a sailboat at a much lower price than marine stores.
When it comes to pricing of hardware for a sailboat, remember the convenience factor. Think of the amount of stock a chandler must put on his shelves waiting for you to need a particular part, and how annoyed many folk become when some odd piece of equipment is not available the minute they walk into the store. Stock sitting on the shelf is money (capital) tied up.
I am by no means a rich person, but I do try to patronize my local marine store as much as possible, simply because I appreciate what he offers in the way of service and convenience otherwise, my next option is to drive 50 kms. to the next closest marine store.
When building my boat in my front driveway, I struck a deal with another marine store near my home for a trade discount providing I purchased as much as possible from him. I still priced around and discussed any major price differences, and quite often we came to an agreement we could both live with. If he could not compete, he accepted i would buy from another source.
__________________
Sailorbob8599 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 04:33   #51
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,475
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
Regarding Halyards and Sheets; Do try an Industrial Rigging Shop. They sell not only s.s.cable, thimbles, and other rigging, they also sell many types and sizes of synthetic Brand Name lines used on a sailboat at a much lower price than marine stores.
When it comes to pricing of hardware for a sailboat, remember the convenience factor. Think of the amount of stock a chandler must put on his shelves waiting for you to need a particular part, and how annoyed many folk become when some odd piece of equipment is not available the minute they walk into the store. Stock sitting on the shelf is money (capital) tied up.
If you buy a used boat though, you can sometimes reuse the halyards and sheets already on the boat.

I still have the halyards that were on the boat when I found it. It had been sitting on the hard for 5 years at that time.

Even though they looked unbelievably old and were covered with dirt, I allowed them to soak in the bath tub over night in soap and the next day after a normal wash they were as good as new. They are still on the boat now so that is about 10 years of use that I know of. Some old salts (total characters, and owners of ancient full keel boats) told me of this method many years ago but I didn't try it until I bought my first monohull. While racing beach catamarans, I always bought new when I didn't need to......

The 600' plus of anchor rode though was like new as it was stored below decks. Some old boats are loaded with extra supplies! I spent several weekends cleaning all the junk out of my boat after I bought it. It had been fully loaded for a 2 year cruise. Hidden among the junk was some very useable equipment

Just a small thing but purchasing sheets, halyards, anchor rode, etc adds up quickly when you think of the length they have to be plus price per foot
__________________
thomm225 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 13:47   #52
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgilley View Post
So I'm a lurker on here. Someday, I'll try a fresh water cruiser for the experience, but I really want to get near the ocean. That said, why is everything so expensive to refit on a boat? I've seen estimates in the threads to spend 10s of thousands of dollars rebuilding engines... small diesel engines. What gives?

I readily admit to being ignorant, and if some other ignorant person has asked this question, please direct me to the post.

Thanks

Much of cost comes form shopping at We$t Marine

Shopping for Titanium for new chain plates varied from 200 to 600 per plate. 200 at a metals supplier; 600 from someone who knew it was for a boat. The internet is your friend.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 14:32   #53
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by farm sail View Post
so in your example for reduced production a normally $2 part will cost $10 so then why does a $300 water pump not make sense. not many $60 waterpumps to be found for new cars. also you are looking at production cost we dont buy from the manufacturers. by the tim ed the part goes from the manufacturer to z distributor to you the price just goes up. they all need to make a profit including the shippong companies


if you really think it can be done cheaper, go for it start a company build good products sell them for much less and you will have plenty of buyers. feel free to start with a replacement injector pump for my md6b
Yeah, there's a lot of devil in the detail for sure. Then there are accounting philosophies and pricing philosophies too.
Interestingly though, in '99 my boat had a Nanni diesel, pretty much a Mercedes 240D engine. A new waterpump I bought as a spare from the Annapolis Mercedes dealer was about $25! A complete engine gasket set was about $90
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 14:57   #54
Registered User
 
cgilley's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 17
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

more of a curiosity question.
__________________
cgilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 15:16   #55
Registered User
 
cgilley's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 17
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Guys - this thread has become a treasure-trove of wisdom. So, salute to all of you.

My original question was more based on general curiosity of what I've read on this forum and elsewhere. Especially when there is a thread about buying xyz boat and "refitting" it. The subject of budgets and estimates in the 10s of thousands, etc. The comments about that resonated the most with me (driving cost):

  1. Just about every boat is custom;
  2. Some people want to live the same way on their boat as they do in their house. That's going to cost.
The other thing I pulled from this thread is that life is full of trade-offs. Shoot, I should know that - got 11 kids and now the grand kids are starting to show up .


I think what I'm going to do is join a local time sharing club (I live near a large lake). This will let me sail all year. Now I just need to track down that little sloop I've never seen leave the dock.
__________________
cgilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 15:17   #56
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

An active Owners Association is very helpful in tracking down equivalent parts, good pricing and finding ways of doing things without reinventing the wheel.

Good access on a boat is worth every penny. If you buy a boat without good access, who do you have to blame? The builder or the buyer?

Three things to check (actually four)

Like any boat, check it out, but here are things I suggest to everyone:

1. Dipstick access. If it's a pain to do, you won't, nor would the PO. Is it easy to get to or do you have to tear the cushions out?

2. What engine? Are spare parts reasonably available? Yanmar parts are hard to get (worse in Canada). And very expensive. Not a deal killer, but... Universal engines are Kubotas so tractor stores have the parts. Yanmar are reputed to be available world-wide, Kubota not so much, but they're both tractor engines on boats in the 30-38 foot range. PS – There is a Kubota tractor dealer just outside Duncan, BC on the Island, right on Hwy 1. Great folks (July 2015).

3. Sleeping - try out the berths. Really. Our boat has what I have found to be THE largest V berth of any boat in its size class, even larger boats. Try out the berths. Try out the berths...

4. A thorough, complete, searchable and supportive boat owners website. For example, our C34 and C36 are very, very good. Many of the systems are also applicable to the C30, which has had too many and various websites available over the years.

Courtesy Boatman61 on cruisersforum:

Make up a list of boats that are up for sale near you that are accessible to viewing externally.. tromp the pontoons and check out the exteriors.. salty enough.. or trendy enough.. the way the exterior is maintained tells a hell of a lot.. not so much the gleaming S/S.. more the general appearance.. sloppy lines, mildewed running rigging.. the way the sails are stowed.. can tell one a lot before you even look below.. don't like it.. Scratch it..
A coupla w/ends of this you'll have a short list..
Call the brokers or owners and set up 2 viewings a day for when it suits you and then go for it.. – limit the viewings and take cameras & lotsa photos.
Get on Board.. the more knowledgeable checks out the top while the other heads below.. now some boats.. I don't know why.. but as soon as you reach the bottom of the steps its: “No Way.”
Not because its a mess.. just a kinda antipathy.. don't strike any others of the same model off the list.. unless it happens again. Its weird..
Anyway.. when you've both finished nosing around.. ask the broker or owner for some time alone together one the boat.. no excited patter/chatter or this good.. that bad..
Thats for later.. this is bonding time.. sit back.. maybe lay on the bunks.. and open up.. you'll know what I mean when it happens.. that little smile with eyes closed on both your faces means.. You've found THE Boat..
And you'll go home and start scheming how to get it yesterday...
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 16:08   #57
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

I don't buy the 'custom' excuse at all. My boat is 30 + years old and yet it has the same items on it just about every other newer vessel has. Most things in marine shops seem to be mass produced.

In many places anything for a boat draws luxury tax. That increases the prices.

Secondary there is the luxury myth which sees people selling items selling them for more because if people own a boat they can pay more. An example of this is that you can purchase the exact same ropes for sail boats from a non marine rigging shop for about $1 a meter less than a boat shop. Same brand, same thickness, same color. A really good example of this is the pant product called 'penatrol'. If you purchase Penetrol from a boat shop with the pretty blue boat on the container and it's called 'Marine Penetrol' you will pay almost twice as much as buying non 'marine' Penetrol in a hardware shop. And yet, it's exactly the same product. Exactly the same!

And labor. As I've just discovered this year. My local boiler maker charges $66 an hour working from the chanderly. A domestic or engineering firm boiler maker is at least $120 an hour. And yet the engineering boiler maker is cheaper at least by half. Same with a local mast rigger who seems to charge the earth.

Some one said flying planes is much more expensive. Well, absolutely it is if you own a plane. But renting a plane as most pilots do I'd far cheaper than owning a boat.

But, I still think owning a boat might be cheaper than owning a horse and riding it frequently in competitions.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 17:09   #58
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

In large part it depends on what you are talking about. From a manufacturer's standpoint a good supplier will use corrosion resistant materials, isolate dissimilar metals, upgraded wiring, even pot electrical switches when redesigning for the marine market. Add all of this up and a good builder really does supply a different product.

For a retail store price is a function of time on the shelf and cost. The longer a part is going to be on the shelf the more you have to charge for it.

For labor, marine workers tend to make more because of the working conditions, but a large cost is that marine service providers generally have to buy Jones Act or Longshore insurance not workers comp. This can be extremely expensive. In most cases it can drive up the cost of labor by $20/hr or more just for the insurance, not to mention all the additional training required to certify employees to work in the marine world.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2015, 17:36   #59
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
In large part it depends on what you are talking about. From a manufacturer's standpoint a good supplier will use corrosion resistant materials, isolate dissimilar metals, upgraded wiring, even pot electrical switches when redesigning for the marine market. Add all of this up and a good builder really does supply a different product.

For a retail store price is a function of time on the shelf and cost. The longer a part is going to be on the shelf the more you have to charge for it.

For labor, marine workers tend to make more because of the working conditions, but a large cost is that marine service providers generally have to buy Jones Act or Longshore insurance not workers comp. This can be extremely expensive. In most cases it can drive up the cost of labor by $20/hr or more just for the insurance, not to mention all the additional training required to certify employees to work in the marine world.
I presume your talking about an American context are you? This is a multi national forum
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2015, 05:56   #60
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelsole View Post
If you think that sailing is expensive, try aviation. Multiplying by ten is just a starting point.
I know you are correct on this. My office mate of many years restored two Ercoupes. We found the bearing in the landing gear is the identical SKF sealed bearing we buy by the dozens for machines we build. I can assure you that the only difference is the mark the Rabi places on it to make it Kosher - the 20X price increase. If you want to really screw stuff up, let the government run it.
__________________

__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spinnaker Poles...Why so Expensive? rhr1956 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 26 11-08-2017 00:28
Why is it so expensive for yachts ? martymcfly General Sailing Forum 125 25-02-2013 15:21
Why Are Tethers so Expensive ? GorillaToast Health, Safety & Related Gear 67 07-02-2011 19:01
Why Are Anchors so Expensive ? tager Anchoring & Mooring 39 19-05-2010 13:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.