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Old 22-10-2015, 12:59   #31
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

If you think that sailing is expensive, try aviation. Multiplying by ten is just a starting point.
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Old 22-10-2015, 13:11   #32
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Some other points to consider.

Much of what you buy for your boat youíll never actually want to use. For example, EPIRB, flares, liferaft, drogue. Thereís a big list of gear needed, just in case. And as youíll pickup on this forum, there are some people who want to live their lives on their boats, just as they would on land, and arenít willing to make comfort sacrifices. So add in the cost of using a low voltage electrical system without the benefit of connecting to a power grid. Also being independent of water and other home connected services we all take for granted.

Location Just comparing boats with cars for a moment. I take my car to the garage. Thatís good because the garage has all the tools and handling equipment required to do work on my car. Obviously theyíll still need to buy in parts, but thatís easy with the make a model. With a boat, it doesnít work like that. All the gear needs to be taken to the boat. And youíll see people such as engineers walking between the boat theyíre fixing and their truck/van (often a long distance down marina walkways carrying tools etc back and forth. And theyíre charging you $80-100 per hour to wander about in the sun.

Even when the boat is put on the hard itís still an access issue, climbing up and down a ladder with all the gear. Try to lift a motor in or out whilst the motor is 20 feet up in the air. Now you need to hire a crane (two times). Whereas at the garage, for your car, you would not be charged an extra say $300 for the use of their gantry. And of course the yard itself charge for the getting your boat in and out of the water and the trestles to hold the boat up on land.

But the parts. (I try to do as much as I can) but the time spent sourcing parts is significant. Because much of the time it isnít just a matter of calling the dealer. And there are choices to be made also.

A couple of years ago I replaced my inboard diesel motor. I only have a small 26 foot keel boat and I had a good deal on the motor. A local marine engineer quoted a good price for fitting. It was basically 40 hours at $80ph (and he came in a few hours under his quote). But there was all this extra stuff that added to the cost.

Also, and again consider replacing a motor in your car. To keep the job cheap and simple replace with the same motor. But thatís almost impossible with a boat. My old Yanmar was 45 years old. New Yanmars donít even have the same footprint. To keep cost down I took the old motor out myself and cleaned and painted up the engine bay.

But all of the systems had to be either replaced of altered to suit the new engine. New exhaust system, new fuel system and tank (old Yanmars have their own tank built in), new morse controls and cables, one off machine parts for the engine mounts and prop shaft coupling just to name a few. I wonít even discuss electricity for the motor, but that was complicated=expensive.

And my old Yanmar gearbox was left turning and the new gearbox right turning, so I had to buy a new propeller. Nothing wrong with my old prop or its dimensions, but it turned the wrong way. And of course we add in the yard costs, haul out and in, and crane.

Am I glad I replaced the motor? Absolutely. I can go out in the roughest weather totally confident when I push the start button it will fire into life. And I have spare horses now. Did it increase the value of the boat? Iíd guess not a single dollar.
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Old 22-10-2015, 13:23   #33
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Expensive? Have you priced houses these days? Ever been to a home appliance showroom? Ever had an electrician/plumber/furnace guy to your house? Ever had a new roof put on your house? Ever bought new furniture? How much did you pay for your TV/microwave/stereo? Compared to a brand new car, boats are a bargain!

Life is expensive. Prioritize.
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Old 22-10-2015, 13:40   #34
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

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Originally Posted by cgilley View Post
So I'm a lurker on here. Someday, I'll try a fresh water cruiser for the experience, but I really want to get near the ocean. That said, why is everything so expensive to refit on a boat? I've seen estimates in the threads to spend 10s of thousands of dollars rebuilding engines... small diesel engines. What gives?

I readily admit to being ignorant, and if some other ignorant person has asked this question, please direct me to the post.

Thanks
There's always a cheaper way.

You can always pull the engine yourself then have it rebuilt. I pulled my 352 lb Bukh Diesel using the boom, lines/blocks etc already on the boat. I just had to wait for the right tide when I pulled it to be able to swing it over onto the dock!

Also smaller is cheaper. If you get a boat say 28' or less, you can power it with a 4 stroke outboard. (cost $500-$1600)

If you have sailing experience, you can get away with just using your engine coming from your slip.

Try and find a boat that already has most of the other items. Maybe get an old full keel boat in decent shape:

http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good...oats-list.html
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Old 22-10-2015, 14:45   #35
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Ways to save money and keep the quality
1. Do as much work as possible yourself (said already by others)
2. Find substitute sources for spare parts/consumables
3. Develop a list of critical components such as starter motor, fuel injectors, fuel transmission pump and alike, and start looking for bargains, buy the components upfront at cheaper price and keep them in stock.
4. Buy lines at bargain price from the "leftover bin" at the chandlery store. If they don't have it wait, eventually it will show up.
5. When not sailing bring inside all the lines/sheets to minimize UV exposure. Cover the coils of halyards at the bottom of the mast (same reason).
6. Do not use the shops at the marina (if possible) most of the time their prices are higher and they are overloaded. Find a good (emphasis on good) machine shop or carpentry shop outside the marina and let them do the job.

It may require shelling some money upfront but long term it will save you a boundle.


May the good winds always be with you
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Old 22-10-2015, 14:52   #36
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Detailed accounting explanations aside: The short and simple answer is its all custom hand made. Even a so called 'production boat' is made from a bunch of templates hanging on a wall that have to be drawn around and cut out. and a few moulds, that are used for hand layup because it is better quality control. Nothing gets stamped out and bolted together. curved shapes have to be 'moused' and adjusted to fit. This alone makes cabinetry more complex than regular furniture.

With regard to the compared reference to aircraft at least they can use presses to push sheet metal over a simple wood form with a rubber block to make parts. and riveting is immediate and faster than gluing.

So as if the original build was not labour intensive enough, The fit-out or refit requires specialized materials, installed into awkward tight spaces. Most new engines are being designed and manufactured as a disposable throw away item. they are worked harder than in any other transportation use, So have a higher capitol cost per distance traveled.

But in the end there is a certain amount of snobbery applied to the price of the finished item. As in "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it"

However those that can no longer afford it are abandoning and scrapping boats. boat movers remove wrecked boats for disposal from Marina's after insurance claims are settled. and can be a good source for recycled second hand parts.

IF the OP is asking this question in terms of $$$sign eyes thinking it could be a good business opportunity. more profitable than being an employee? I would advise keep your day job.
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Old 22-10-2015, 14:56   #37
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Agree with all the above. But wait! There's more!
Not only is all the stuff more expensive, but the everything must be built to a much higher standard than for a house or car.
After the insult of all this you are then given the punch in the nose when you are told your $500000 3 yr old "investment" will now only fetch $250000. That can really hurt. if that happened with housing, we would all be wringing our hands and crying gloom and doom.
Also, the throwing of buckets of money at a yacht reminds us all why they call the boat "her". Some pleasure, much pain. But men are easily (mis)lead by their egos.
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Old 22-10-2015, 15:01   #38
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Add to what Carstenb states - Also add the packaging of each of those few parts made, then the separate shipping, plus the cost of distributors holding the stock and so forth.
Sad fact is that small volume production is expensive throughout the entire supply chain.
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Old 22-10-2015, 15:10   #39
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

BOAT...

B reak
O ut
A nother
T housand
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Old 22-10-2015, 15:13   #40
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

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When changing the wallas heater in my boat, yuo need to be a midget with orangutang arms. I managed it together with a friend and a mirror. My arm though a hole behind the heater and my friend's arm from the other side and him guiding the work via the mirror. 45 minutes to attach a hose clamp!
This is affectionatly known as...Boat Yoga
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Old 22-10-2015, 17:04   #41
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Bottom line is if you are not experienced with boats, it can cost you a lot.

If you have experience, you can get by a lot cheaper. I started buying boats at age 16, first sailboat age 30.

I have $8,000 in my boat and it is very capable of cruising. It's my 6th sailboat.

It's all up to the individual. Are you wanting your home/apartment you now live in on the water or do you want to sail? Be on a boat?

I was reading today (in Richard Henderson's book Singlehanded Sailing) about the first few circumnavigators. Slocum had about $1.80 in his pocket when he set sail. A few others sailed on Folkboats around 25-26' long with a bit over 7' of beam. (which my boat is based on)

So, it's your choice how expensive it can get...............

http://www.amazon.com/Singlehanded-S...der_0070281645
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Old 22-10-2015, 17:13   #42
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Why are sailboats so expensive to own? I started sailing at age 55 and didn't want to buy an old boat that needed extensive renovation before it could be sailed on the North Pacific Ocean and be reliable. I didn't have time for such a project. So I bought a new Pacific Seacraft Dana (24 feet). That was 13 years ago and I have sailed this boat extensively and often under rough conditions. I mean, I have beaten the CRAP out of this boat! I figure the total mileage (through the water) is over 25,000 miles and I have worn out the first set of sails. I also have tried to do my best to keep up with normal maintenance.

What is the result? No major expenses, very minimal failures while sailing, only one significant repair in 13 years. In this case I think it means you get what you pay for. A Pacific Seacraft boat is not cheap but I wonder what my costs might have been (and my enjoyment) if I had been sailing a more lightly constructed boat? (You also need to know that this boat has minimal extra equipment or systems, just what is needed to go sailing.)

Conclusion- If you have a strong boat, a simple boat, and you do your own maintenance, the expenses don't seem unreasonable. (Maybe I just haven't owned the boat long enough to reach a critical expense point.)
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Old 22-10-2015, 17:21   #43
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

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Why are sailboats so expensive to own? I started sailing at age 55 and didn't want to buy an old boat that needed extensive renovation before it could be sailed on the North Pacific Ocean and be reliable. I didn't have time for such a project. So I bought a new Pacific Seacraft Dana (24 feet). That was 13 years ago and I have sailed this boat extensively and often under rough conditions. I mean, I have beaten the CRAP out of this boat! I figure the total mileage (through the water) is over 25,000 miles and I have worn out the first set of sails. I also have tried to do my best to keep up with normal maintenance.

What is the result? No major expenses, very minimal failures while sailing, only one significant repair in 13 years. In this case I think it means you get what you pay for. A Pacific Seacraft boat is not cheap but I wonder what my costs might have been (and my enjoyment) if I had been sailing a more lightly constructed boat? (You also need to know that this boat has minimal extra equipment or systems, just what is needed to go sailing.)

Conclusion- If you have a strong boat, a simple boat, and you do your own maintenance, the expenses don't seem unreasonable. (Maybe I just haven't owned the boat long enough to reach a critical expense point.)

How much has your new boat depreciated? I am looking at total cost of ownership: Bucks to buy + $ to operate for 10 years - Buck from the sale when I exit. Brand new boats depreciate very quickly with use.
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Old 22-10-2015, 17:37   #44
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

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Expensive? Have you priced houses these days? Ever been to a home appliance showroom? Ever had an electrician/plumber/furnace guy to your house? Ever had a new roof put on your house? Ever bought new furniture? How much did you pay for your TV/microwave/stereo? Compared to a brand new car, boats are a bargain!

Life is expensive. Prioritize.
I'm pretty much a boat novice but, to me, boats seem comparatively inexpensive as a full time residence! For example, the pressure regulator broke on our hot water tank this year. This resulted in a flood in our house and over 40,000 to repair the damage. Plus 6 months of work! And that does not include the cost of a new water heater. Another 3,000 if I recall correctly.

And there is constant work on the house too not just major repairs. It's certainly not less expensive or less time consuming than a boat!
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Old 22-10-2015, 17:49   #45
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Re: Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

Derfy- You are correct in your thinking. I just knew I didn't have a lot of years to learn everything. Now I know there are boat yards that can restore an old boat to almost new condition for a lot less than a new boat. Undoubtedly I will take my losses when it comes time to sell. Maybe that time will be in the far future. Maybe I wil die while out sailing and won't have to worry about it. Maybe I will give the boat to some young fellow who knows that Dana's are meant to be sailed (not tied to a dock and looking pretty).
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