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Old 18-08-2019, 20:41   #1
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Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Just wondering the % of failures of the paint, all kinds but particularly hard finishes.

I like the Seacoat VX10 There are a lot of attractive properties for me.
  • it is hard
  • low friction
  • it can withstand being beached
  • Can withstand scouring
  • It can spend time out of the water
  • It lasts for many years

I don't like that it has no antifouling properties and needs very regular cleaning if not in use. So I'm wondering what would happen if I added copper powder to the top coat.

I know I'd loose any manufactures support but is the copper likely to cause the paint to fail or how long until the copper lost it's effect... then what?
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Old 18-08-2019, 20:49   #2
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Have done it to epoxy.
Was not as effective antifoul as regular micron Ultra2.
Also hard as hell to sand.
Does tick your boxes above except for lasting as antifoul.
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Old 20-08-2019, 15:07   #3
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Of course it doesn’t work. If it did, everything chandlery would stock bags of it. But they don’t.
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Old 20-08-2019, 15:22   #4
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Just wondering the % of failures of the paint, all kinds but particularly hard finishes.

I like the Seacoat VX10 There are a lot of attractive properties for me.
  • it is hard
  • low friction
  • it can withstand being beached
  • Can withstand scouring
  • It can spend time out of the water
  • It lasts for many years

I don't like that it has no antifouling properties and needs very regular cleaning if not in use. So I'm wondering what would happen if I added copper powder to the top coat.

I know I'd loose any manufactures support but is the copper likely to cause the paint to fail or how long until the copper lost it's effect... then what?
Why not just go all the way and use CopperCoat, and save having to redo the bottom every couple of years. You could get atleast 10 years out of a bottom job, as long as you maintain it properly.
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Old 20-08-2019, 15:22   #5
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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Of course it doesn’t work. If it did, everything chandlery would stock bags of it. But they don’t.



Does it not work at all or just not as well as other antifoul. I'm looking for an improvement over no antifoul but if it looses any benefit it might have had in a couple of years there is no benefit using the long lasting hard paints.

I know I'm not alone but the whole bottom growth/antifoul thing really annoys me.
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Old 20-08-2019, 15:35   #6
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Mine lasted 15mnth then was not as good as
The best AF’s. If you like abraiding back, have at it.
The majority of proprietary “coppercoat” users were
Similar afaik.
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Old 21-08-2019, 08:31   #7
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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Does it not work at all or just not as well as other antifoul. I'm looking for an improvement over no antifoul but if it looses any benefit it might have had in a couple of years there is no benefit using the long lasting hard paints.
It doesn't work at all. Look, anti fouling paints are a complex mix of solvents, binders, pigments and biocides that the manufacturers have spent decades and hundreds of millions of dollars developing. It is unrealistic to think that you can simply grind up some copper pipe or a handful of pennies or something, toss it in the can and expect that your kitchen sink chemistry experiment is going to increase the paint's effectiveness. And despite what some boaters may claim anecdotally, there is ZERO evidence or data to the contrary. Not to mention that modifying your expensive bottom paint in this manner is absolutely going to void any warranty it might have come with.
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Old 21-08-2019, 09:27   #8
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

I especially like the stories I hear about adding cyan pepper to the paint.

"It really increases the effectiveness!" I think it just makes the paint taste better for the crustys!

I have been dealing with bottom paint in the hot Texas waters for my entire life. My father and I have had a boat that stays in the water since I was born. I have seen multiple people try the Coppercoat approach and I have NEVER seen anybody repeat their use of it. That says a lot. Usually they are switching back to standard approaches within 2 or 3 years.

I guess you could try actual copper plating! Best of luck with that!
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Old 21-08-2019, 09:35   #9
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Coppercoat is different from anti fouling paint in that it is a copper-loaded epoxy, not actually paint at all. But it does not use a typical epoxy, it employs a water soluble epoxy. This is how the copper in the matrix is exposed to the surface. That, and periodic sanding of the coating. This why DIY versions of it always fail. Not that actual Coppercoat is particularly effective in any event. It is not. At least not in this neck of the woods.

The cayenne pepper, or Roundup (or whatever else) additions to anti fouling paint are laughable wastes of time and effort.
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Old 21-08-2019, 12:18   #10
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Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

Hang a piece of solid copper pipe in the water at your dock. Report back in a couple of months.
I’ve done it as an experiment, but I didn’t hang a piece of PVC and a piece of galvanized as controls, nor did I take pictures.
But what I found was that “stuff” in Panama City Fl grew on copper pipe seemingly just as well as anything else.
I believe many ships back in the day were copper clad, to prevent worms from boring into the hulls, and I believe they fouled just as bad even being copper sheeted.
In other words I don’t believe metallic copper to be effective, but perhaps copper that has reacted with something else may be.
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Old 21-08-2019, 13:10   #11
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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Hang a piece of solid copper pipe in the water at your dock. Report back in a couple of months.
I’ve done it as an experiment, but I didn’t hang a piece of PVC and a piece of galvanized as controls, nor did I take pictures.
But what I found was that “stuff” in Panama City Fl grew on copper pipe seemingly just as well as anything else.
I believe many ships back in the day were copper clad, to prevent worms from boring into the hulls, and I believe they fouled just as bad even being copper sheeted.
In other words I don’t believe metallic copper to be effective, but perhaps copper that has reacted with something else may be.
Wow, that's actually really interesting! If pure copper doesn't stop anything, then copper powder doesn't stand a chance.

Years ago I had a very large reef tank with a lot of coral and invertebrates in it, you couldn't even use tap water in a new house to mix your salt water or it would kill all of the coral and invertebrates. After a year or two it was safe to do so as the copper was covered by a layer of whatever and no longer leached into the water. I guess that why you need to abrate coppercoat to keep it active.

I think I will just stick to ablative.
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Old 21-08-2019, 13:33   #12
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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If pure copper doesn't stop anything, then copper powder doesn't stand a chance. I think I will just stick to ablative.
What biocide do you imagine is in your ablative anti fouling paint?
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Old 21-08-2019, 13:39   #13
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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What biocide do you imagine is in your ablative anti fouling paint?
I believe my Seahawk paint uses Miracle Grow and vitamins.
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Old 21-08-2019, 13:41   #14
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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This why DIY versions of it always fail. Not that actual Coppercoat is particularly effective in any event. It is not. At least not in this neck of the woods.
Not in my experience. My DIY "coppercoat" WAS effective for at least 12months
as I had the dinghy alongside which I had to apply pickling paste applied to remove the oyster bases within 4 mnths. My hull, clean except for layer of slime. After that it deteriorated exponentially as I didn't reactivate the copper.
So smart bttms, I suggest you may have had a batch of contaminated air.
Ones gospel is not necessarily, everyones.
Personally, the cost+effort of copper-coat preparations doesn't stack up relative to
commercially available ablative, self polishing or semi-hards.
YMMV.
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Old 21-08-2019, 13:45   #15
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Re: Who has added copper powder to bottom paint, did it work ?

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Not in my experience. My DIY "coppercoat" WAS effective for at least 12months
I don't know where you do your boating but there are places where house paint will perform as well as what you just described. One year and then your DIY version of Coppercoat was replaced with something else? Sounds like a resounding success.
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