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Old 13-12-2007, 22:51   #16
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You have to be very very careful about adding things to paint. If the Paint is anygood to begin with, then it shoudl have a balance of additives to Binder ratio. Adding anything more will take that ratio out of wack. The result is the coating will possibly fail. Hard foulings will no longer be hard and the ablatives may not...umm...ablate...well, they won't erode away in the controlled maner they are designed to.
However, there are plenty of additives available if you know what to use. For copper rich products, your local Garden centre will have many powder type spray additives rich in Copper. I did toy with the idea of mixing copper powder into Epoxy. But the copper powder was so expensive to buy, I gave the idea a miss.
I must say, I would be very disapointed with anyone adding the deadly toxins, like the DDT's, that are basicaly illegal to use now. Some of those nasties are really really nasty and break down into other nasties even more nastier than the orginal nasties nastyness. When TBT was around, Marina's were barren waste lands on the bottom. Today, it's great to see the fish life present. Even if there is a lot of copper, at least the marine life can survive.
As for putting Antibiotics into paint. The idea was toyed with by Epiglass some 20yrs ago. It was shelved due to the consideration of something in the marine environment becoming resistant to antibiotics. And then becoming like the Superbugs we find in Hospitals today.
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Old 14-12-2007, 01:24   #17
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...I thought the tin ban was only for little boats. The big container ships still use it I think? Pretty sure the Navy does to...
As it was first marketed, TBT was mixed into paint in a form that allowed for free release of the compound. As used now, TBT is mixed into control-release paints, to allow for a slower leaching of the compound.
Regulations in effect since 1987 have banned the use of TBT compounds on vessels under 25 meters in length.
Some restrictions exclude boats with aluminum hulls, because the alternative copper compounds used would erode the aluminum.
In 2001, the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) called for a ban of sales and application of TBT-based antifoulings by January 2003. At the same time, the IMO also called for the total prohibition on hulls after January 2008.
This means that ships could no longer be coated with TBT-based antifoulings after January 2003, and those vessels coated with it have up to January 2008 to have them removed. When the treaty comes into force next month, all vessel owners or captains must carry signed declaration that the hull is compliant.

See the WHO - FAO DATA SHEET ON PESTICIDES No. 65
Bis(tributyltin)oxide (PDS)
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Old 14-12-2007, 01:28   #18
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Its pretty easy to spot when ablated (pinkish colour)

I wonder if it can be tinted? I'm pretty sure I could still access some.

Not that i'd use it of course

Dave
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Old 14-12-2007, 07:27   #19
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How would you attach copper foil or sheets onto fiberglass hull. I've been thinking of doing just that, what the the price of hauling a 23ft beam boat every two years plus the cost of the paint ($300.00 plus per gallon in the BVI) seems like might be a better deal. Weight being considered I could throw some of the crap off the boat. Just an idea i'm toying with. Got run the boss is looking for me!!!!!!
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Old 14-12-2007, 08:47   #20
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Two years ago we were discussing cayenne pepper and bottom paint with the commercial fishing guys and we decided to do a little test. We painted the port hull of our catamaran with Interlux Micron CSC without additives and then put about 4 oz of dried cayenne pepper in the paint for the starboard hull. We did 2 coats on each hull before launching her (Puget Sound) and putting her in her slip with the bows facing south where the hulls got nearly equal sunlight.

When we hauled her one year later, the growth on both hulls was relatively equal and surprisingly minimal (no scrubbing occurred between haulouts and the boat didn't spend a lot of time underway). The haulout facility had two identical pressure washers so a friend started down the starboard hull and I started down the port hull. He finished in half the time I did with the same results. The growth on the starboard hull just didn't seem to have as much adhesion as on the port hull. It sloughed off more readily and with less pressure.
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Old 14-12-2007, 11:40   #21
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Hi Wildrice, I would suggest you do one of two things. Go the the expense of buying copper powder. This can be bought from Paint suppliers as it is a metal flake additive to give paints that metal sheen in the same way Aluminium does in paint does. Mix this with epoxy resin and roll on to your hull. This is also done commercially with a product called "coppercoat".
Or the other thing, find away to buy anti-foul paint at a better price. $300 for a Gallon of paint is rediculouse.
Copper sheet or foil is too expensive, hard to make it stay on the hull and pure copper does not stop all marine growth.
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Old 14-12-2007, 12:00   #22
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Now I'm no environmentalist. I'm more of a scientist. I don't accept things as fact until they are proven or have a very strong logical argument behind them. Heck, I don't even accept that humans are the cause of global warming yet. (not a debate topic for this thread - meant to show I'm not a big environmentalist)

However, putting nasty things like DDT and antibiotics on your bottom are something that just shouldn't be done. You like the water right? You like fish and the whole idea of going diving and snorkeling right? You like reefs and beautiful atols right?

Well, why the HELL would you want to destroy these places with poison??

Copper is one thing, but DDT and antibiotics??

C'mon.

At least protect *yourself* (and humanity) by not being a moron with antibiotics. If lots of antibiotics end up in the sea, the next time you get a case of "swimmer's ear" or one of those bathing bacterias, you might find it has become antibiotic resistant and will kill you.

THINK PEOPLE!
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Old 14-12-2007, 14:03   #23
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Now I'm no environmentalist. I'm more of a scientist. I don't accept things as fact until they are proven or have a very strong logical argument behind them. Heck, I don't even accept that humans are the cause of global warming yet. (not a debate topic for this thread - meant to show I'm not a big environmentalist)

However, putting nasty things like DDT and antibiotics on your bottom are something that just shouldn't be done. You like the water right? You like fish and the whole idea of going diving and snorkeling right? You like reefs and beautiful atols right?

Well, why the HELL would you want to destroy these places with poison??

Copper is one thing, but DDT and antibiotics??

C'mon.

At least protect *yourself* (and humanity) by not being a moron with antibiotics. If lots of antibiotics end up in the sea, the next time you get a case of "swimmer's ear" or one of those bathing bacterias, you might find it has become antibiotic resistant and will kill you.

THINK PEOPLE!
I agree.

Putting DDT in your paint should be a "No Brainer". At some point you or someone else is going to have to go down and scrub that bottom. I wouldn't want that stuff coming in contact with any human skin (not to mention marine life).

Antibiotics???? HMMMMM....not so much in my opinion. I know that the "Super bug" is looming. However, there are millions of gallons of antibiotic soaps being dumped in the ocean every day. I doubt any antifouling contaminated with antibiotics is going to do much. Just think...there may even be a couple of fish in the marina that have the flu....you could be helping then...j/k...just my $.02 (and I'm no scientist).
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Old 14-12-2007, 16:40   #24
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Aloha All,
I was thinking of sanding off a pound of thick copper wire and using the dust in a gallon of paint.
JohnL
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Old 14-12-2007, 16:55   #25
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Wheels, I've used CopperPoxy. First season, seemed to work great. Second season, same places, even with a top-up coat, it stank.

It was in no way worth the extra expense, unless that extra epoxy helped seal the bottom of the boat. Unanimously agreed by all involved, never to bother with it again.

Your mileage may vary, with the waters and sailing conditions and critters.
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Old 14-12-2007, 16:58   #26
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Aloha All,
I was thinking of sanding off a pound of thick copper wire and using the dust in a gallon of paint.
JohnL
Sounds like a plan.....

Speaking of sanding....here's a tip..no charge

I know that it's illegal in most places but I'd do it anyway.

I used to sand the bottom of my boat while it was still in the water. Just scrub the bottom (or get your regular service to do it). Get yourself about 4 sheets of wet/dry 80g paper. Sand the bottom down as far as you can reach from your dinghy or in the water. You will be amazed at how easy it is to sand.

If you are a free-diver (as most cruisers are, I think), dive down and sand the rest of the bottom. I used to do my 45' boat in about 2 hours and she had a BIG bottom with a 7' draft.

When you haul-out, just have them water blast it and you can apply your bottom paint as the bottom dries. You could even go back in the same day.

The other alternative is to get on your full length work-suite, grap your orbital sander and about 40 sheets of 80g aluminum-oxide paper, your respirator and safety glasses and sweat your butt off for about 8 hours, all bent over, with the sander over your head. Of course, you could always pay the yard to do it.
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Old 14-12-2007, 17:36   #27
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Compound-X from the Star Brite company. It is an additive you put in your bottom paint that, the company claims, doubles the life of the antifouling properties. Compound-X is really tetracycline hydrochloride, a relative of an antibiotic you may have taken to get well. It works by providing a bacteriostatic layer on the surface of the paint.

Have used it for years. It works. Boat US used to carry it; maybe still does.

Bill
I have used it for years....except that I don't buy it from Boat/US or WM.... instead I buy it from companies that supply animal grade pharmaceuticals.... you get a lot more for 25% of the cost. It works well.... last bottom job had zero growth on the bottom after 3 years in SW FL.
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Old 14-12-2007, 19:55   #28
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"The other alternative is to get on your full length work-suite, grap your orbital sander"
Nah, Kanani you missed the easy way out. You buy a cheap air-operated sander/buffer like the kind any auto body shop uses. They use air tools to prevent electrocutions and to keep dust OUT of the bearings, by allowing the air to leak out and keep it purged.
Then you stick on a handy spun-bonded plastic abrasive wheel, and a compressor to the boat, and grind it all off while still in the water. Easy job. Hand labor is for H1-B applicants, not Yachtsmen.<G>

Tinch, I've got to admit that randomly scattering once-vaunted antibiotics into the environment (in animal feeds, bottom paints, etc.) scares the **** out of me. I'd make that a hanging offense, because as the stuff gets spread around, bugs that are immune to it florish, and then people start dying because there are no "good" antibiotics left.

I'd rather just pour bleach around the boat and kill off everything in the area, or TBT and make the oysters all grow bizarre shells. Pray you never catch a drug-resistant staph infection--because the list of effective antibiotics can be counted on your fingers on less than one hand, and our entire medical system still practices "antiseptic" procedures that are outright banned as dirty and disease spreading in the EU and Finland.
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Old 14-12-2007, 21:39   #29
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Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
I used to sand the bottom of my boat while it was still in the water. Just scrub the bottom (or get your regular service to do it). Get yourself about 4 sheets of wet/dry 80g paper. Sand the bottom down as far as you can reach from your dinghy or in the water. You will be amazed at how easy it is to sand.

If you are a free-diver (as most cruisers are, I think), dive down and sand the rest of the bottom. I used to do my 45' boat in about 2 hours and she had a BIG bottom with a 7' draft.

The other alternative is to get on your full length work-suite, grap your orbital sander and about 40 sheets of 80g aluminum-oxide paper, your respirator and safety glasses and sweat your butt off for about 8 hours, all bent over, with the sander over your head. Of course, you could always pay the yard to do it.
Yeah, but why bother to do it right when illegally polluting the environment is so much cheaper and easier.

Jeezus.
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Old 14-12-2007, 21:59   #30
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I think fouling and the Anti-fouling is an issue that doesn't really need to be an issue. The boat needs to come out once a year anyway for anode replacement and a check over. So anti-fouling is not a huge task nor expense. (unless you have to pay $300 a gallon in BVI). so the best action is to lift the boat pre season and do your maintenance so you have a good clean hull for the Summer. Not a lot of growth occurs in the Winter and by the end of winter, you are ready to haul for the pre season again.
Of course, if you are a performance boat and need a clean hull for racing, then that's a different story, but chances are, you hare hauling more often and scrubbing and polishing.
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