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Old 04-07-2012, 18:24   #16
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The safest propane is no propane. 99.9% of the time, propane is not an issue. However, being as safe as anyone could be, fate deals someone that 0.01 death card. Butane is lighter than air. On shore, slip 110 power. Yes electricity can start fires, but no explosions.
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Old 04-07-2012, 18:34   #17
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

I think Tager was referring to people being lulled into false security by all the whizzywags,,,i cant agree with his idea of getting rid of them though.
But as far as storage i would definitely store outside the hull if possible and in a vented locker for sure.
This is borrowed from Delmarrey's list.
6-5.12.1.1 LPG Locker: The protective housing or locker shall be: (a) Located above the waterline, (b) Vapor
tight to the hull interior, (c) Provided with a means to latch its cover, (d) Vented to the atmosphere, (e) Located so
that with its cover open or closed escaping vapor cannot reach the bilge’s, machinery spaces, accommodations,
other enclosed spaces, or accumulate in a cockpit.

Vapour tight to the hull interior would mean sealed off from any gas ingress to the boats interior.
I have worked on and around propane powered vehicle's for many years, and find it a very safe fuel when treated right.
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Old 04-07-2012, 18:52   #18
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

'Safe' is only as safe as the person using the product. If one can't swim they best stay out of the water.

I'm more afraid of gasoline then propane. When ever I go on a gas powered boat I can smell the stuff and wonder where it's coming from.

If I smell propane I get off the boat. But that's what sniffers (gas detectors) are for. As long as I'm aboard the sniffer is running. And when I'm off the boat for any time, the valve is off.

And maintenance is the next best thing. Keep the equipment & sniffers up to par and no worries.
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Old 05-07-2012, 00:00   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo
The safest propane is no propane. 99.9% of the time, propane is not an issue. However, being as safe as anyone could be, fate deals someone that 0.01 death card. Butane is lighter than air. On shore, slip 110 power. Yes electricity can start fires, but no explosions.
Butane is TWICE as HEAVY as air. It will not float away. Same danger as gasoline or propane in that regard. What is in your "propane" tank is actually LPG. Which is usually mostly butane. Not propane. Especially in the cruising areas.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:11   #20
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

See ABYC “A-1", paragraphs A1-7 & A1-8 (page 4)
http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf

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Butane is TWICE as HEAVY as air. It will not float away. Same danger as gasoline or propane in that regard...
The density of a gas is roughly proportional to its molecular weight. Air has an average molecular weight of about 29 g/mol, so any gas with a molecular weight heavier than that will be denser than air.

Propane (C3H8) and butane (C4H10) have molecular weights of about 44 and 58 g/mol, respectively, so both will be heavier than air.

Gases - Densities
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:12   #21
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
See ABYC ďA-1", paragraphs A1-7 & A1-8 (page 4)
http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf
Quote:
A-1.7.5.3 A low side pressure relief device shall be integral with each regulating system, and it shall discharge at between two and three times the delivery pressure of the regulator.
I don't think I've ever seen one of these installed, or even where to get one.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:37   #22
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Great discussion. Hopefully helping to keep us all safe.
"Deck mounting will be dangerous if leaking LPG can drift thru a nearby hatch or port." Good point, I wouldnt consider it a reason to not deck mount, but a reason to be careful where, or to not open that portlite nearby.

6-5.10(c) LPG Hose: In LPG or CNG systems, the lines shall be certified and labeled for the fuel used. Ha, that's funny! or is this talking about only the short connector to an appliance? never seen the long line labeled.


"I always shut the solenoid switch off and when the flame went out I knew the propame had been turned off." I do this too. Here's a problem though. several times, after turning the solenoid off and watching the flame die, we got busy serving food etc and left the stove valve on. For the next meal, as soon as you turn the solenoid on you start smelling gas. I would say wind blowing out a low flame and this issue were the riskiest part of using propane for me. Having a solenoid switch is handy,but can be just another complication to beware of.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:38   #23
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I don't think I've ever seen one of these installed, or even where to get one.
arent these part of the regulator? (the little screen vent)
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Old 05-07-2012, 23:48   #24
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
arent these part of the regulator? (the little screen vent)
In some regulators but not all. Propane High Pressure Regulators

Quote:
Relief Valves and High Pressure Regulators
LP Gas systems operating with high pressure lines downstream of the regulator sometimes require additional protection due to the possibility of excessive pressure buildup in the piping. Unlike other propane regulators that incorporate an internal relief valve as part of the regulator functionality, some high pressure regulators do not have relief valves or vents built in (and are designed as such) because of their intended application. Under certain circumstances, high pressure regulators must be fitted with a pressure relief valve or the downstream piping must be fitted with a safety relief valve. The reason for additional relief valves is due to the high pressures these gas lines are subject to, even with a regulator. For instance, piping that installed on the outlet side of a high pressure regulator is itself under high pressure and if the pressure builds to an excessive level, the piping joints and connections can form leaks due to pressures beyond what they are designed to withstand. A supplemental relief valve installed at the regulator or in the piping itself will vent excessive gas line pressure before a leak can form at any of the pipe interconnections and fittings.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:38   #25
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Beware of solenoid valves! Poor electrical connections to these valves and/or long periods of operation can cause these valves to get hot! Very scary situation when connected directly to the gas bottle!
I had one get so hot - you couldnt touch it! Who knows what might have happened if it shorted out. I took it apart and found it stuck open from corrosion. I cleaned it and greased it with white lithium grease and it works fine now but I dont leave it on any longer than it takes to get the job done.
I believe the system is safer without an electrical solenoid valve because people tend to rely on these things too much. Manuel controls are much safer - but you have to remember to turn off the valve. I always turn off the switch and burn off the gas at the stove - that way I know that the valve is working, then I shut the bottle off on deck.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:01   #26
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Yes! All solenoid valves will malfunction in a marine environment - engine starter, electric windless, and/or propane shutoff. They are also not designed to draw a current for long periods of time.

BTW regulators will also malfunction in a marine environment.
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Old 09-07-2012, 13:54   #27
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks



Well, lets see......a Y duct to the main jet impeller, next to this this cute little oxy bottle off the clapped out old rebreather, and this garage door opener and a solenoid and a sprinkler valve, and this bundle of surplus flares goes here....and a bit of fencing wire there...a touch of leccy tape over here.....there we are, all done. "Your PWC is ready sir! Always glad to help a fellow sailor in need. What a bit of luck I had my tools handy when you ran over that pesky net. Some people have no consideration. Happy, er, sailing!"

(A little while later).....wait.....wait....ok, he's heading in the direction of the shore now, should impact somewhere between the supermarket and the laundrette.....steady.....3, 2, 1, IGNITION!

Muahahaha. Ambulance and fire sirens should be done in 5 min or so, and then we'll have the quiet anchorage back. Heh heh, eat your heart out McGyver.
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Old 09-07-2012, 15:19   #28
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

i found aeroquip hosing here inmexico is much less pricey than is the usual pressure hosing used for propane as we know in usa--seems usa is so far behind as far as equipment for propane items is concerned--lol---so the stainless braided hsing is a lot cheaper WITH THE FITTINGS than is rubber..... easier to place tank on transom or over taffrail. much safer way to go .

guess what i am going to convert to.....LOL


b5tw--perfect jetski pic
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Old 09-07-2012, 20:00   #29
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Re: Where to Mount Propane Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoduck View Post
Beware of solenoid valves! Poor electrical connections to these valves and/or long periods of operation can cause these valves to get hot! Very scary situation when connected directly to the gas bottle!
I had one get so hot - you couldnt touch it! Who knows what might have happened if it shorted out. I took it apart and found it stuck open from corrosion. I cleaned it and greased it with white lithium grease and it works fine now but I dont leave it on any longer than it takes to get the job done.
I believe the system is safer without an electrical solenoid valve because people tend to rely on these things too much. Manuel controls are much safer - but you have to remember to turn off the valve. I always turn off the switch and burn off the gas at the stove - that way I know that the valve is working, then I shut the bottle off on deck.
Characterisic of all solenoids is that they must be permitted to make their full stroke. If the core is prevented from moving or is stuck part way the current draw will be very large. If it is working properly it should not get excessively hot. Now that you have serviced it, does it run cooler?
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Old 10-07-2012, 22:54   #30
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I like my CNG...PITA to refill bottles, heavy, but CNG is lighter than air...leaks are vented away quickly and safely.
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