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Old 11-10-2016, 19:44   #1
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Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

So..... we purchased a Simpspon cat recently that needs a slight bit of work but nothing major. One of the stumbling blocks has been figuring out where and if we can buy the shoe/heel bearing for the skeg hung rudder. Is this possible or do we have to have it fabricated?
It would look something like this attachment.....
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Old 11-10-2016, 20:25   #2
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Imho, find a good local SS welder, preferably one who does medical fabrication.
Those guys are really anal about perfect work.
I used to have one in our neighborhood but sadly he left for Arizona to get away from the cold, damp winters in the PNW.
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Old 12-10-2016, 03:43   #3
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, aj.
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Old 12-10-2016, 05:02   #4
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

It may be that the part is custom and must be made, as suggested above, but there are many sources online., a good example is http://rigrite.com/Hardware/Rudder_H...s&Gudgeons.htm The female part is generally called a gudgeon, the male part is a pintle. They can be mounted either way, so if the female part is on the transom or keel it is a 'transom gudgeon', if on the rudder a 'rudder gudgeon', and vice versa.
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Old 12-10-2016, 06:28   #5
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Thanks for the quick responses!
I've been told (by my accomplice) that we can fabricate the parts. We also have a good friend that owns a machine shop and he can do the weld but we were hoping it was a standard part we could find more readily available.

Couple of reasons why.... 1) the boat is 26 hours away so although we took a ton of great measurements, what are the odds it will be perfect when we get down there to fit it? If we found what part they originally used there's a better chance of a good fit. 2) our friend is much too generous will never let us pay for anything so it leaves a feeling that you've taken advantage. Not a terrible problem to have but it would be nice not to make this his project.

We found the pintles and gudgeons on rig rite but they aren't quite the right part. See on the pic how the pintle is actually the rudder shaft and it fits into a larger bushing type thing that is part of the gudgeon, which then the whole thing is attached to the skeg. If that makes any sense....? I do appreciate the explanation on them and what to call them based on where they're attached though! I'm learning something new every day. It's a start!

The search continues.
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-amy
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Old 12-10-2016, 07:36   #6
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Wasn't sure if the picture was of your boat or just an 'example'. The 'skeg gudgeon' in the picture is almost certainly custom fabricated. My choice would be to get an appropriately sized solid square bar of 316l stainless, or, preferably marine bronze, and have a solid piece milled out of that, no welding at all. For instance, a 2" x 2" x 10" bar of 316L stainless can be had for around 100.00 at one of the online 'cut-to-order' sites, and they are notoriously expensive...a local supplier would probably 30-50% less.


As for the fit, to ensure they are the same, for a custom piece unfortunately the most reliable thing is to bring the piece being duplicated to the duplicator.
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Old 12-10-2016, 07:51   #7
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

We'd also talked about milling them out of SS blocks but apparently they were $500 a piece so we'll have to look into that again. We have the machines available and the expertise of our friend but the problem is that we don't have a piece to duplicate. They're both missing, unfortunately. We have to go off our measurements and drawings and hope for the best. Thought about bronze too but figured maybe the SS would be easier to work with once we got down to the boat if we find that the piece isn't quite right. Ah, the joys.
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Old 12-10-2016, 08:12   #8
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

You're much better off having someone in the vicinity of the boat machine you new rudder hardware. As that's the only way to test them out after they're made, & thus know that the fit is correct. Especially since they really need to be tested on the boat, with the boat in the water for a while. Given that some errors or defects in such parts or their fit may not be readily apparent without real world testing.

For instance if anything else which connects the rudder to the boat is worn, was shimmed when it was installed, or is out of alignment, etc. Then it'll affect every other piece of hardware which supports the rudder. And it's better to find out that the fit of some of the hardware needs adjusting, or re-machining, before you're out on the ocean & something important breaks.

And as has already been said, they're custom parts to begin with. Or close enough so that you need to have them made on the spot regardless, as their design may have changed with different hull numbers of your boat's design. Or the rudder may have changed, etc. These kinds of things are pretty common.

Also, while cost is always a factor, consider this. How expensive is it if you have to get towed in after the rudder breaks? Including; the tow, getting things fixed, the lost time of everyone onboard, & the people that such an incident spooks?

That said, if you can find a shop that's fluent in corrosion resistant metal work, but isn't a "marine" machine shop, then the price will be lower than if you go to someone on the waterfront to have the work done. And it would be wise to at least have them inspect all of the rudder's fittings, not just the one. Even if nothing else is in need of replacing at the moment.


Edit: When I say "locally", or on the waterfront, I'm referring to where the boat's located.
And might you have any other pics of things? Especially as that image doesn't match what comes to mind when one thinks about how rudders on catamarans are connected.
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Old 12-10-2016, 08:28   #9
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

All good points! Lots to think about. My boyfriend and his dad (both marine techs/boat builder) have gone over it with a fine tooth comb but definitely can be forgetting or missing something. Perhaps my search will morph into finding a machinist near the boat. Seems like that might have to happen given the situation.

We will be going down for 3 weeks to work on it over the winter and then hope to launch in May...so it won't actually be in the water for 'testing' until then. And likely not very long before we head up the ICW.

Expense is of course something we all look at but we're also realistic and typically go the more expensive route if it's better. I concur on thinking further out than 'right now'.

Thanks for the input!!! I love the wealth of knowledge on here.
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:17   #10
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Are you talking about replacing the gudgeon itself or the bearing?
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:39   #11
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Jason is probably the right one to comment but he's sort of explained it to me that it's more of a shoe or heel bearing that will attach to the bottom of the rudder and not a traditional gudgeon. I may have that wrong and will verify I've said that correctly. I tried to attach a photo with no success apparently. Will give it another shot.
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:42   #12
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

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Old 12-10-2016, 10:50   #13
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj676 View Post
ok, gudgeon it is. Wanted to make sure.
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:35   #14
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj676 View Post
So..... we purchased a Simpspon cat recently that needs a slight bit of work but nothing major. One of the stumbling blocks has been figuring out where and if we can buy the shoe/heel bearing for the skeg hung rudder. Is this possible or do we have to have it fabricated?
It would look something like this attachment.....
Why do the whole part over?? Take the fitting off, measure the rudder pin (pintle), have a bearing made to press in the existing fitting, (grudgeon) or build up the existing grudgeon with weld and machine to fit the pintle.
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:43   #15
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Re: Where on Earth do you find these parts?!

There isn't actually a part....that's the problem. They're completely missing. The only part there is the pintle. =(
Am I getting my terms correct? See above photo. The part we need would attach to the rudder and fit onto that 1.5" diameter post. (pintle?)
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