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Old 17-03-2013, 05:52   #1
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Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
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whats it worth?

i can get this yacht for about $12,000.
YachtSalvage.com - Blue Water 51' 2984 for sale
used they go for 80,000
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=12264&url=
so thats a $68,000 discount.
so here would be my plan for the boat.

assume the two motors are shot, and so is the generator
(they are worth core money still)

assume the wiring is good, as i have read a research paper that says wires are generally good after a submersion...

assume new interior is needed
mattresses, cushions, insterments

assume transmissions are good, or can be rebuilt.

so here would be my plan. first, repair the bottom and float it. pull it home with my 25' boat(to freshwater).

remove the engines, generator.

i dont think i would ever want to plane out again with fuel prices as they are... so
replace the engines with two cummins 4 cylinder diesels. (200hp each)
$5000
replace the generator with a large battery bank, and a DC generator.
$4000
replace mattresses, cushions,
$2000
replace/install GPS/sounder/radar
$4000

scrub fuel tanks, fix windows, replace fridge, props, fix rudders,
and enjoy.

so for under $20,000 the boat is done, and better then it was before the storm...
thoughts? issues?

granted i have not visited this yacht yet, nor will i unless i am sure it is worth the money.
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:04   #2
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Re: whats it worth?

I think your estimate to get the boat back in shape is extraordinarily low. 2 engines for 5k? Have you gotten a firm quote on that number?

The wiring is most likely shot. Even without a submersion, its a 1984 model and wiring does age.

4k for generator, battery bank and DC generator? Battery bank alone will probably be close to a thousand.

You have no budget allocated for the actual repair of the hull. Even if you DIY it, it will cost more than you expect.

I am thinking even if you get lucky you are going to find a total refit comes in close to the asking price of non-salvaged boats.

If you love totally rebuilding a boat, then it might make sense. If you are looking to get into a MV for a discount I think you are going to be really disappointed.

My opinion is worth precisely what you have paid for it , but having looked at nothing but refit numbers for the past 3 years (and we did not buy a project boat!) I am a pessimist when it comes to actual refit costs.
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:15   #3
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Re: whats it worth?

i can get the engines for $2500 each rebuilt.
is wiring replacement a big deal? i would assume you could just pull new wires in when you pull out the old wires?
the DC generator is custom. i have developed plans for it for my other planned build that is being delayed by a child arriving. and i had figured $2500 of it for the batteries.

your correct, i have no idea of the price to fix the hull. i was prepared to spend 1500-3500. i was thinking 5 gallons of epoxy, hardner, and glass mat. as well as gel coat and some marine wood.

and i was wrong on the non salvaged boat price too... $88,000 is for a gasoline powered boat.

the big thing for me is i do not see any job on this boat that i cannot do myself. i have other prospects, including a repo that was trashed, but given the location, i can have this trucked to my house for a very low price, or i can tow it to a boat yard for the cost of my fuel.

do you really see me spending 70,000-120,000 to do a refit?
any idea what a boat yard might charge to repair the hull?
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:16   #4
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Dreams, baby, just dreams.....

$20k? Yeah, give me a toke as well.......
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:16   #5
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Re: whats it worth?

the motors are everywhere, not rebuilt, very cheep.
Cummins 4BT P7100 Pump Engine for Rebuild CPL 1839 3 9 turbocharger Turbo | eBay
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:17   #6
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Re: whats it worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
Dreams, baby, just dreams.....

$20k? Yeah, give me a toke as well.......
thats helpful.
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:38   #7
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Re: whats it worth?

done proffesionally i can see over $20,000 on the hull alone,after taking out half the interiour to do the repair
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Old 17-03-2013, 06:47   #8
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Re: whats it worth?

Wiring done properly is a very big deal, which is why you see so many boats with old, outdated wiring.

My husband is an Electrical Engineer, so our rewire is of a better quality than you would fine on ANY yacht- even brand new Oysters but even if you don't go to the extreme lengths he went to, its a very, very time consuming job. You can not 'just run wire'. The wires have to be situated in such a way as to minimize movement and to have access for trouble shooting. Then you have to ensure you have the proper sized wire for each application (and its not one size fits all), account for voltage loss in your runs, then all those connections must be soldered and crimped, sealed and labeled (you could get away with just a quick and dirty crimping but why do it half assed which will mean you have to do it again eventually- do it properly the first time). Our boat is a 42 foot boat and it took a couple of months and a lot more money than you would expect.

Save yourself the heartache and just buy a boat in good condition. A boat in good condition of this vintage will STILL require a whole bunch of work.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:21   #9
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Re: whats it worth?

mimsy, i am assuming your talking about the 12 volt wiring?
you would not see voltage drop on 120/240 volt. also you would not crimp 120volt.

when i was going to build first, i was planning on a central bus system with 36 volts. you still would not see a voltage drop on 36 volts over a 30' run from a central bus bar.

i think if i needed to rewire, i may just leave the old wires in and run new wires.
and we do not have $100,000 saved up yet for a ready to float boat, nor would we spend that much for a boat that we would just use to run the loop for a few years.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:31   #10
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Re: whats it worth?

I will let you argue your points with my subsea electrical engineer. He would disagree with you and I will go with his opinion because I understand his level of electrical competency. You don't know who he is, so his point will not be of value to you. I understand this. No harm no foul.

Why on earth would you leave the old wires? That will ensure a rats nest of wiring and good luck when you need to trouble shoot something. I suppose there are just two different kinds of people- those who believe in doing things the right way and those who just want a quick and dirty fix. Not saying your quick and dirty method is wrong at all, I just fall into the other camp.

Its your money and time. If you think you can rebuild it for 20k despite people who have actually undertaken this task recently telling you (with no gain for their opinion) it cannot be done for your estimate by all means go for it. You may absolutely tell me I was wrong.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:37   #11
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Re: whats it worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
That's just the fuel injection pump!
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:38   #12
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Re: whats it worth?

noone has yet told me what fiberglass repair will cost if i do it myself?
very curious on that one.

as for the wiring, i have no issue there. i agree wire will degrade with time.
i dont see that as my biggest issue thou.

the big issue to me is the hull repair.
followed by re-power.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:38   #13
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Re: whats it worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
That's just the fuel injection pump!

cummins 4bt P-Pump engine, Number 1 injector failure took out number 1 cylinder and turbo. Engine is for rebuild/performance mod rebuild. Dost not include turbo, PS pump, or Alternator.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:42   #14
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Re: whats it worth?

4BT Remanufactured Long Block | eBay

there is a guy that sells them rebuilt for $2500 each
he gets the old grummin bread vans, and scraps the aluminum, and sells then engines rebuilt for $2500.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:44   #15
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Re: whats it worth?

hey I don't believe you wantt anyone to tell you anything other than what you what to hear

for every story of someone buying a cheap boat and rebuilding it and ending up with a great deal I bet there are 6 that gave up on the money pit
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