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Old 17-03-2013, 07:48   #16
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Re: whats it worth?

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post

for every story of someone buying a cheap boat and rebuilding it and ending up with a great deal I bet there are 6 that gave up on the money pit
i agree, so i am trying to figure out in the current condition if $12,000 is out of line. personally, if i can get the engines going they should be worth 8,000 each on the used market. the generator motor is most likely salvageable as well. i just have no use for engines that big to run the loop.

as far as what i want to hear, i want to hear its worth 12K and can be brought back to new for under $38,000. if those two can be made, i will buy the boat. then when i am ready to upsize even if i sell the boat for $30,000 i will feel good.
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Old 17-03-2013, 07:51   #17
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Re: whats it worth?

Others have already posted they don't feel it can be, and my "feeling" is that they are right!
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Old 17-03-2013, 08:46   #18
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Re: whats it worth?

The only thing I can add is that not one person I know who undertook a rebuild such as this ever stayed within their planned budget. Not even close!

I would suggest you follow the old axiom - it will always cost way more than you thought
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Old 17-03-2013, 08:57   #19
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Re: whats it worth?

Something else to consider and I do not wish to offend so please understand I am pointing this out only as something to think about. Is your budget this tight for the boat overhaul out of necessity or out of a desire to not soak a bunch of money into a depreciating asset? If its the later, just skip this post.

If your reasons for keeping the boat budget low are out of necessity, have you considered what it will cost to run this? If you aren't planning on going anywhere but are just looking for a floating home it might not be such a big issue. If you are planning on going anywhere, your fuel costs will quickly outstrip the price of your boat. We love sailing but when we added the baby into the mix we briefly considered getting a Nordhavn. It was not the purchase price that put us off, it was the fuel cost per hour that brought us back into reality. We could afford the boat but could not afford to pay $4.00 an hour plus to go anywhere.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:11   #20
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Re: whats it worth?

no, not necessity. we are full time rv'ers right now, with our own land. we could live like this, in a 40' RV for years more if we wanted. but i would like more room. we plan to homeschool, we will need room for child type things, toys, books, clothes, and we need more room then the 400 sq ft we have now(with slides out) we are taking a vacation to cali next month, and we will visit a few trawlers while we are out there to see what size we truly need. i am hoping a 42-45 will be big enough for my wife. me? i would cross the ocean on a 32' sailboat.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:47   #21
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Re: whats it worth?

Hasn't everyone done this dance before with this guy?
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:48   #22
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Re: whats it worth?

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Hasn't everyone done this dance before with this guy?
yeah kinda. why, your time is better spent killing puppy's?
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:55   #23
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Re: whats it worth?

Better spent doing most anything else. Aren't you the same guy who had the brilliant idea to buy two 52 foot mono hulls and strap them together into a giant Waterworld catamaran a couple of months ago in order to build your dream boat? How did that one work out?
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:57   #24
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Re: whats it worth?

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Better spent doing most anything else. Aren't you the same guy who had the brilliant idea to buy two 52 foot mono hulls and strap them together into a giant Waterworld catamaran a couple of months ago in order to build your dream boat? How did that one work out?
your reading comprehension skills are very low.
if you have something better to do, go do it.
as for me, right now, its 33 degrees outside, and i am trapped indoors while i wait for spring thaw.
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:01   #25
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pirate Re: whats it worth?

Whats it worth..?
As much as your prepared to pump into it...
Whats it worth when/if you flip it...
Thats a whole different story... but they're out there just waiting..
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:01   #26
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Re: whats it worth?

Scoobert, don't listen to the nay-sayers. No one can make this calculation except you.

If you have a lot of time on your hands, and you don't put too high a value on that time, then it is possible that this could make sense for you.

You need to really drill down and be sure about all of the costs. Engines are important; be really sure about it. The engines represent a good part of the value of any mobo. Get a written offer from that guy, including installation. Don't forget to calculate the cost of all the controls, gauges, fuel supply system, filters, etc., etc., etc. Is all the stern gear ok? Shafts, shaft seals, props? How about motor mounts?

Electrical system will take you probably a couple of months to do, and that's if you're already an accomplished electrician. Marine grade tin-coated wire is not cheap -- add it up. Batteries -- ditto. I guess you could easily put $10k into your electrical system, and we haven't even gotten to electronics -- I have spent more than $20k just on parts for my own electronics upgrade (all the labor is my own, so on paper free!).

Add it up really carefully then put whatever value on your time you think is right, then add 30% for contingencies -- does it still look attractive? Well, if it does, then go for it. If you enjoy that kind of work, and if you do it well, then all the more. If it doesn't, then, well, -- fuggedaboutit. But only you can decide.
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:12   #27
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Re: whats it worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
I think your estimate to get the boat back in shape is extraordinarily low. 2 engines for 5k? Have you gotten a firm quote on that number?

The wiring is most likely shot. Even without a submersion, its a 1984 model and wiring does age.

4k for generator, battery bank and DC generator? Battery bank alone will probably be close to a thousand.

You have no budget allocated for the actual repair of the hull. Even if you DIY it, it will cost more than you expect.

I am thinking even if you get lucky you are going to find a total refit comes in close to the asking price of non-salvaged boats.

If you love totally rebuilding a boat, then it might make sense. If you are looking to get into a MV for a discount I think you are going to be really disappointed.

My opinion is worth precisely what you have paid for it , but having looked at nothing but refit numbers for the past 3 years (and we did not buy a project boat!) I am a pessimist when it comes to actual refit costs.
I totally agree with you Mimsy.

Unless you do all of the work yourself the costs will be beyond your imagination. We have easily double that in a 1984 that never went under water in Ivan. Our Cabins good, engine & generator running. If your interior is wrecked and not agressively cleaned and dried right afer the flooding you are into a major project. If salt is in the engines and sitting since the storm you can probably replace them.

If you have been smitten, at least get a survey.
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:22   #28
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Re: whats it worth?

I once owned the land cabin version of a money pit, circa 1903. Never could find old world compatible replacement material, which meant that the total number of cubic yards that had to be involved in the refit was always higher than what I thought beforehand. I always called any money pit activity a "mushroom" project. I dunno - boats may very well be like that - only worse. I've never done a boat salvage project.

Relative to the hull repairs, I'd give some credence to what Atoll is saying. He took on a project in the form of a Macwester 26, although I'm not sure whether or not it was a salvage boat. By the pics, he did a fair amount of glass work on it. It's a good idea to get an opinion from someone who has actually done the work contemplated. I wouldn't have a clue about glass work. (I'm pretty good with horse-hair plaster tho - )

MacWester 26 and the 'hina-ous' Crew

I always enjoyed working on the money pit. It was sometimes a history lesson, and occasionally an expensive one. If you enjoy working with old stuff - then maybe you should just do your thing and not worry about the no-romance-always-practical naysayer types.
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:22   #29
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Re: whats it worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Scoobert, don't listen to the nay-sayers. No one can make this calculation except you.

If you have a lot of time on your hands, and you don't put too high a value on that time, then it is possible that this could make sense for you.

You need to really drill down and be sure about all of the costs. Engines are important; be really sure about it. The engines represent a good part of the value of any mobo. Get a written offer from that guy, including installation. Don't forget to calculate the cost of all the controls, gauges, fuel supply system, filters, etc., etc., etc. Is all the stern gear ok? Shafts, shaft seals, props? How about motor mounts?

Electrical system will take you probably a couple of months to do, and that's if you're already an accomplished electrician. Marine grade tin-coated wire is not cheap -- add it up. Batteries -- ditto. I guess you could easily put $10k into your electrical system, and we haven't even gotten to electronics -- I have spent more than $20k just on parts for my own electronics upgrade (all the labor is my own, so on paper free!).

Add it up really carefully then put whatever value on your time you think is right, then add 30% for contingencies -- does it still look attractive? Well, if it does, then go for it. If you enjoy that kind of work, and if you do it well, then all the more. If it doesn't, then, well, -- fuggedaboutit. But only you can decide.
the cost of the engines, is not installed. nor is it for wireing, or for the throttle cable that goes from engine to helm, nor is it for the adapters if needed.

i have no idea on shafts or seals, or engine beds. if the shafts are bent, i would not buy it, i understand custom shafts can run $4000 each. if it was a common part, i would say $1200 each.
one prop is shot for sure, but they can fix props now?>.

i have to admit, i didn't know copper would not work for the wiring?
i looked at another boat that was vandalized, it had regular home copper wiring hanging out...?
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:25   #30
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Re: whats it worth?

First of all you are talking about an incredibly weak boat. The hulls are thin, the hull/deck joints are more what you would expect on a 16' Bayliner, there are virtually no structural bulkheads inside. These vessel were designed to sit at the dock and have been known to break in travel lift slings. If this thing has suffered any structural damage at all you will find broken and saturated stringers (chopped mat over plywood) and floor members throughout.

Wiring..... any wiring subject to salt water immersion of more than a few hours and not flushed with fresh water and dried will be corroded. The cost to totally rewire the boat with proper marine grade AC & DC conductors, breakers, switches, panels, lights etc. will be in excess of $60k (materials only).

No one who knows anything about boats would attempt this on such a low quality vessel.
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