Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-05-2007, 08:36   #1
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
What is the Best Material to Build a Wheelhouse From?

If you were building a wheelhouse from scratch (I know most of you aren't power boaters), what construction techniques would you use?

I have been mulling:

*Light wood structure fiberglassed over, the remove the wood
*Wood
*Same techniques as home construction (not likely)
*Ferrocement

Any idea which is most appropriate and which would be the least expensive?

Dimensions are appros 7' high x 14' wide x 15-20ft long.

Thanks for any tips.
__________________

__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 08:43   #2
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
Sean.

First question for you is this.

Is this for a power boat. Or a sailboat?

If you have the time and money. I would go with panel constuction. Using foam core and fiberglass with resin. That is light. And a bit pricy. Or you can go with plywood and fiberglass?

Is money an option here?
__________________

__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 09:10   #3
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan
If you were building a wheelhouse from scratch (I know most of you aren't power boaters), what construction techniques would you use?

I have been mulling:

*Light wood structure fiberglassed over, the remove the wood
*Wood
*Same techniques as home construction (not likely)
*Ferrocement

Any idea which is most appropriate and which would be the least expensive?

Dimensions are appros 7' high x 14' wide x 15-20ft long.

Thanks for any tips.
Yo Sulli,

how about some more information? You certainly are not adding a 14X20 foot room to the top of an existing vessel? Hope it's a barge. If so, I'd use wood.

best, andy
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 09:49   #4
sitting on the dock of the bay

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,513
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
that's a pretty big structure. sounds like you need some teak or oak beams to support the 3/4" or 1/2" marine plywood. then epoxy over the wood. IMHO.
__________________
sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most.
gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 11:45   #5
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Extra info:

I suppose when posting a quesiton, one has to add a little more info so people can really picture what the question is about.

Conclusion: My wife and I can't afford to cruise. Period. So we have decided to change boats to something we can afford to live and work from that will make it from harbor to harbor in the USA. No international suff, except possibly Canada. We'll be in the Northeast USA only.

To this end, I am taking a fiberglass commercial fishing boat and extending the wheelhouse to make it more liveable. They make yachts like this all the time, and I just spoke with a guy who did up a BEAUTIFUL one for some people in NY. These boats are open deck with a wheelhouse and a little bit of space in the fo'castle that already has some bunks and living area. They are designed to carry 5,000 + payloads and are popular yacht conversions.

The object will be to make as cheap and light (and WATERPROOF!) a structure as possible as an extension to the wheelhouse. The boat style is attached. Basically, I'll take the existing wheelhouse and bring it back on the deck. Decks are wood, existing wheelhouses are wood, and the hull is fiberglass.

I need to find the cheapest and lightest material that will be waterproof and hopefully be able to take a capsize without detaching from the vessel or falling to pieces..

I have time but I have a shoestring budget. I'll drop some marine ports in and such, but this will be a brutally utilitarian project. I don't want to spend any money and my expecatations are not to improve the looks of the old fishing vessel in any way. The only improvement will be systems, extra space and a good bleaching out of the fish gut smells. It will be rugged, dirty and nasty... not a yacht.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	lobsterboat.jpg
Views:	547
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	1154  
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 12:45   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Sean,
If you want the new construction to last use marine ply. 1/4" on doug fir laminated beams. To make the beams cut 2x4s into three pieces and then bend the pieces over a form to get the right shape. Put epoxy and micro fiber filler between each of the strips and clamp them. They will form a crown for your new cabin top. You don't need much of a crown but enough to keep the snow from building up a heavy load. Having one beam for every two feet is ok unless you want to climb on top then more beams and another layer of ply. Your new coach cabin sides can be half inch marine ply over 2x2 or 2x3 frame every two feet. Glass over the whole thing lightly with 10oz cloth and epoxy resin. It'll be light enough so you won't capsize. Use bronze boat nails and liquid nails for attaching your ply to the beams and studs.
If you don't mind it only lasting a few years use cheaper plywood.
Good luck on your new project.
Fred P. Bingham's book "Boat Joinery & Cabinetmaking" will be a great help to you.
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 13:27   #7
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
FANTASTIC advice to get me going, John. Thank you so much. This sounds just right in terms of weight, waterproof ability and easy/cost of construction.

I am contemplating dropping the deck down and "sinking" this structure lower to achieve even better stability, but may not do so, as it's very involved.

But... gotta sell the Gulfstar Hirsh first.

I am just getting the plans together and putting together a plan of attack. I've located the boat and now it's just a matter of time.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn
Aloha Sean,
If you want the new construction to last use marine ply. 1/4" on doug fir laminated beams. To make the beams cut 2x4s into three pieces and then bend the pieces over a form to get the right shape. Put epoxy and micro fiber filler between each of the strips and clamp them. They will form a crown for your new cabin top. You don't need much of a crown but enough to keep the snow from building up a heavy load. Having one beam for every two feet is ok unless you want to climb on top then more beams and another layer of ply. Your new coach cabin sides can be half inch marine ply over 2x2 or 2x3 frame every two feet. Glass over the whole thing lightly with 10oz cloth and epoxy resin. It'll be light enough so you won't capsize. Use bronze boat nails and liquid nails for attaching your ply to the beams and studs.
If you don't mind it only lasting a few years use cheaper plywood.
Good luck on your new project.
Fred P. Bingham's book "Boat Joinery & Cabinetmaking" will be a great help to you.
JohnL
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 13:41   #8
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan
..I am taking a fiberglass commercial fishing boat and extending the wheelhouse to make it more liveable.

The object will be to make as cheap and light (and WATERPROOF!) a structure as possible as an extension to the wheelhouse.
I need to find the cheapest and lightest material that will be waterproof and hopefully be able to take a capsize without detaching from the vessel or falling to pieces..

I have time but I have a shoestring budget. I don't want to spend any money
Yo Sulli,

building it light is expensive. You might save some money accumulating salvaged materials--1/2-3/4-inch exterior ply and 2X4's should be easy to find, Waterproofing using fiberglass and epoxy is unnecessarily expensive. You could try the old way--painted canvas. In the northeast you will need to insulate--again you might salvage this from a teardown. And all your equipment can likewise be bought used.

Do NOT drop the level of the deck such that it is no longer self-bailing.

Keep us informed of your progress.

best, andy
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 13:43   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
John has given you great advice.
Just to answer you first lot of questions.
FC?? NEVER!!!! You do not build cabin tops in FC. Nor would it work on Fibreglass anyway.

Solid Glass?? The best way to do something in solid glass is to make a female mold. Then layup the glass in the mold. This is best done off the boat in a workshop. Then the finished cabin would be lowered on and sealed in place. This requirement I think would rule you out. But it would make for the easiest contruction of the cabin. Although a lot of work would go into the mold.

The best method is a timber/ply/glass construction as John has already pointed out.

I still think your nuts though :-) As I have said before, you don't need a big budget to cruise, you already have the boat. If you needed a big budget, I wouldn't be able to do it. And if you think blowing out a sail is expensive, the costs won't change on a power boat. They just take a radicale shift to different gear. The biggest cost factor that you face in cruising, is where you live. Period. Find somewhere cheaper. Easy, you have a home that you can move.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 14:00   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Sean, take a look at this site. The guy has done a fabulous job with VIP.

Floats

Building a panel would be very easy compared to what he has done. Very light, very strong, You would probably use Vinylester resin instead of epoxy but the procedure is the same. Lots more informationn on the web about vacuum infusion and in building panels you should be able to do both sides at the same time. Build each panel seperately and then join them.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 14:22   #11
Provocateur & Raconteur
 
knottybuoyz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iroquois, Ontario
Boat: Bateau.com TW31 Modified
Posts: 3,583
Images: 87
Cape Sable Grace

Sully

Take a look at the pics of the Cape Sable Grace going together. It'll give you some hints on how it was constructed. Most of which has already been mentioned.

Cape_Sable_Grace_Under_Construction

Pictures are worth thousand of words.
__________________
Yours Aye! Rick
~^~^~^^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~^~~^~^~^^~~^~^
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it, cried beside it and then threatened to haul the POS outside and burn it!"
knottybuoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 14:26   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Sulli:

This is totally off topic but why not just slow down a bit. Your relatively young. You have a nice boat. You have a proven capability to save $. If you continue saving the amount of money that you have posted in other threads you should be able to payoff the boat and save money to go cruising. Sure it may take five to ten years but you are young. I've been planning my get away for fifteen years now and have just got to the point of buying the boat.

Ok back on topic I think Skpr J's idea makes alot of sense. Also I have a very strong vote for insulation for either the hot or the cold weather. I met a couple of power boaters while cruising. One guy had a 35 foot sportfisher he burned 200 gals of fuel with his twin engines running from Seattle to Friday Harbor, Another guy had chartered one of those fuel efficient Trawlers. His boat drank 2 to 3 gallons an hour at cruising speed. Diesel is not going to get any cheaper so I don't see the power boat as a way to get out cruising any sooner.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 15:18   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Sulli:

This is totally off topic but why not just slow down a bit. Your relatively young. You have a nice boat. You have a proven capability to save $. If you continue saving the amount of money that you have posted in other threads you should be able to payoff the boat and save money to go cruising. Sure it may take five to ten years but you are young. I've been planning my get away for fifteen years now and have just got to the point of buying the boat.
Hi Charlie,

I apprecaite the advice, but for once... we finally figured it all out. We need a boat that fits our planned cruising, which is now none.

If you sit back and apply the basic elements of selecting the proper boat, we have the following:

1) Can't afford to cruise and don't want to die waiting to.
2) Must live and work in the USA
3) Don't want to go up and down the coast each year wasting fuel or sails
4) Like nature
5) Got used to living on boats in the winter
6) Need a stable, comfortable platform to live on

Keeping our current boat is both a waste of $100K and a waste of a great cruising boat. We can sit in Maine with it at anchor while working to pay off a huge loan, only to then sit with it longer to amass a cruising kitty, and die in the 10-20 year process. Waste of time.

We would like to enjoy our lives from today until whenever the time is up. This can't be done with a boat I'm a slave to. Sure we have a nice boat, but it's utterly useless to us. It's a waste of such a great cruising boat to just use it as an anchored platform to work from.

I can buy this other boat and refit it to a livable standard on the equity I have in the current boat plus all my savings. I can work along the way and just amass money after that. You say I'm good at saving $$ (thank you), but you ain't seen NOTHING yet in that dept. ha ha

Really though, we finally have it all figured out. It was just one of those things. It just clicked.

Oh and diesel isn't expensive if you're not turning on the engine and going anywhere.

Will get back to some more posts shortly. My internet connection is very poor here in this little harbor I ducked into to avoid the storm.

Oh yeah... I won't even consider living aboard a non-insulated boat anymore. Condensation and mold are ENEMY #1!
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 15:33   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
Yo Sulli,

building it light is expensive. You might save some money accumulating salvaged materials--1/2-3/4-inch exterior ply and 2X4's should be easy to find, Waterproofing using fiberglass and epoxy is unnecessarily expensive. You could try the old way--painted canvas. In the northeast you will need to insulate--again you might salvage this from a teardown. And all your equipment can likewise be bought used.

Do NOT drop the level of the deck such that it is no longer self-bailing.

Keep us informed of your progress.

best, andy

Hi Andy,

Wow! I'd like to find out about using painted canvas. Any links? More description? I'm a huge fan of old ways of doing things.

Good point about not dropping the deck below the self bailing line. Just read about an overloaded boat such as this carrying approx 10,000lbs load that was enough to put the scuppers under. She didn't have a watertight deck and took water on and sunk. Made me think the same thing. This is all still in planning since I have to sell the Gulfstar in order to buy the fishing boat hull. I'm sure there will be many more things to consider.

Also, a new project for the trawler section of this forum to follow... I'm sure there will be a can of worms or two - espeically in the existing wooden wheelhouse? ha ha
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2007, 16:02   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,296
You have to do what feels right to you. But, converting a lobster boat into a trawler is a very unusual choice. Don't know what your resources are, but there are serviceable 'real' trawlers out there for less than 50K. Eg.:

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale=

No, I don't know anything about this particular boat - there are many others and it's a buyers market.
__________________

__________________
slomotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ferro Cement Hulls ? marleman Monohull Sailboats 1064 06-12-2017 17:11
Opinions: Steel Boats ? Zach Monohull Sailboats 24 14-07-2010 15:36
2bros, 2yrs build and 3yrs around the world! 2brosana55ftr Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 13-03-2009 11:32
2bros, 2yrs build and 3yrs around the world! 2brosana55ftr General Sailing Forum 72 08-01-2009 09:19
A Primer on Fiberglass Construction Jeff H Construction, Maintenance & Refit 25 17-11-2005 11:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.