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Old 12-05-2016, 11:24   #16
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

I also vote zinc. The holes are about the right size. Mine are mounted on the fiberglass part of the skeg and a small bronze strap provides electrical continuity to the shoe.
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Old 12-05-2016, 11:47   #17
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

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Originally Posted by kawaboy View Post
Hello all

The picture shows the lower rudder bearing on a rob perry 42ft Tatoosh

What are those round things? There is another one on the other side but offset from the one shown.

Is there a reason that the lower part wasnt painted?

Would this be some mechanism to remove the bottom bearing to allow removal of the rudder? I certainly hope so so I can service bearings etc.

As usual thanks for your help.

Joe in Manila
From the pics, it is hard to determine if the one part is a gudgeon or holds the pintle? Here nor there. Almost looks like ferrous metal sandwiched between something on the skeg. I would guess I can see two deteriorating bolts holding it and a hole for an anode above them.
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Old 12-05-2016, 13:26   #18
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Yup, either zincs or drain holes for winter storage. Some boats have drain holes for the keels and rudders to ensure no water during winter storage.
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Old 12-05-2016, 14:26   #19
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I also vote zinc. The holes are about the right size. Mine are mounted on the fiberglass part of the skeg and a small bronze strap provides electrical continuity to the shoe.
From the color it would appear the gudgeon or pintle mount is ferrous metal of some sort? That has been bolted through the skeg.
There appears to be a higher hole, I bet was for zincs?

Just my dumb opinion.
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Old 12-05-2016, 17:48   #20
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

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Read this thread. It shows the design of a rudder with a bronze shoe like yours. What should I expect now? - Rudder removal

There are bolts/Flat head screws or something similar going thru the bronze shoe & into or thru the enclosed tip of GRP rudder that is inside the hollow bronze shoe.

/ Len

Edit: should read "...enclosed tip of GRP SKEG that is inside....."
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Old 12-05-2016, 17:55   #21
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
From the color it would appear the gudgeon or pintle mount is ferrous metal of some sort? That has been bolted through the skeg.
There appears to be a higher hole, I bet was for zincs?

Just my dumb opinion.

Cadence: Quite sure the "skeg shoe" is bronze. Rust is probably coming out of the rudder itself. Rudder is on left in pic. Bronze shoe is on bottom of GRP skeg.
Bronze shoe is also the socket for the bottom end of rudder stock.
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Old 12-05-2016, 22:41   #22
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Ill be going to the boat tomorrow armed with a grinder with flap wheel to investigate further.

Ill report back with pics.

Thank you for your comments. Muchly appreciated.

Joe
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Old 14-05-2016, 06:41   #23
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

I think Ive got it figured out...thanks to the collective wisdom and the site that Len referred me to.

Ive attached pix that I think will explain this. My gudgeon layout is very similar to the site reference. That round thing that looked like a zinc is in fact some kind of bronze "washer" for the fixing screws.

One f these c/sunk screws is missing on one side. There are a couple of other c/sunk screws without this "washer" as shown.

I will attach a zinc to this section closer to launch time and won't break this apart as there is hardly any play in the rudder.

Thanks very much to all who replied .

Joe
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Old 14-05-2016, 07:00   #24
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

"From the looks of that rudder shaft bleeding rust I bet that rudder is filled with water." Cheechako



Kawaboy,
Before I would launch your boat, I would at least inspect your rudder as Cheechako has mentioned. If your rudder frame has deteriorated, you could have a catastrophic failure of your rudder leaving your concerns about the gudgeon/rudder blade a moot point. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 14-05-2016, 07:04   #25
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Good point...thanks. Ive sounded the rudder and its hollow in places.

Ill drill some exploratory holes to check.
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Old 14-05-2016, 07:43   #26
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

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Originally Posted by kawaboy View Post
I think Ive got it figured out...thanks to the collective wisdom and the site that Len referred me to.

Ive attached pix that I think will explain this. My gudgeon layout is very similar to the site reference. That round thing that looked like a zinc is in fact some kind of bronze "washer" for the fixing screws.

One f these c/sunk screws is missing on one side. There are a couple of other c/sunk screws without this "washer" as shown.

I will attach a zinc to this section closer to launch time and won't break this apart as there is hardly any play in the rudder.

Thanks very much to all who replied .

Joe
Good idea to check for water in rudder by drilling a drain hole at bottom of each hollow area & see what comes out. The holes can be plugged with GRP mix before launch.
You should satisfy yourself that the metal framing & it's attachment to rudderstock is still strong before you launch,as recommended by other posters. Perhaps you could brace the tiller/quadrant off to insides of hull-P & S- & try pushing the trailing edge of rudder left & right. Look for movement of rudder around rudderstock,etc.
It would require drilling larger holes with a holesaw to check internal rudder metal framing. This is a bit of a project in itself & if/when you decide to do it,you should plan on a week or so. Google "sailboat rudder repair" & you will find info.

I don't see a lot of corrosion of the bronze skeg shoe in pics but a zinc or two won't hurt. They should be bolted directly to the cleaned bronze shoe with silicon bronze bolts (1/4" ?) tapped into shoe metal if possible.

Suggest you replace the missing silicon bronze flat head skeg bolts also ASAP. Google "silicon bronze flat head bolts" for sources.

Losing a rudder would not be fun

Cheers/ Len
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Old 14-05-2016, 21:36   #27
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Attaching a zinc to the shoe raises a small question. What would be a good antiseize compound to use so the zincs can be unscrewed and replaced?

OR if the screws are badly corroded, can I just grind them off flush and re drill and tap another set of mounting holes? (a better idea, I think)

Cheers

Joe

PS...I finally paid for this boat!! I now own a hole in the air that I will keep trying to fill with money and hopefully in a few months turn it into a hole in the water!!
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Old 14-05-2016, 22:10   #28
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Anti-seize would not be necessary. a bolt will seize up by corrosion. the Zinc will stop that. putting anti-seize or sealant would only insulate the flow of electrons. which is what electrolysis is. Anodes are made of material that will give up electrons more readily than what they are "connected" to. Hence they will oxidize first. If you don't change it before it is completely oxidized, then the bold might corrode. if you insulate the anode it will still oxidize but so will what ever it is attached to..( attached not connected) need good metal to metal contact, for it to do its job.
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Old 15-05-2016, 08:43   #29
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawaboy View Post
Attaching a zinc to the shoe raises a small question. What would be a good antiseize compound to use so the zincs can be unscrewed and replaced?

OR if the screws are badly corroded, can I just grind them off flush and re drill and tap another set of mounting holes? (a better idea, I think)

Cheers

Joe

PS...I finally paid for this boat!! I now own a hole in the air that I will keep trying to fill with money and hopefully in a few months turn it into a hole in the water!!
you could use a little Lanolin or Lan-o-cote on the threads. Keep the bronze under the zinc bare so it contacts the zinc. You dont want to try to redrill etc.... but yes it could be done.
Bronze is tough stuff, so take care in drilling, it likes to grab the bit, jam up and break the bit off. It's all about how hard you feed the bit in and the speed.
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Old 15-05-2016, 11:04   #30
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Re: What Are These Things On Lower Rudder Bearing?

Had you using bronze hardware to secure the zincs? Introducing a third metal makes no sense.
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