West Systems or Total Boat Epoxy?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

If you miss the recoat time window, it is still crtical to sand to get a good bond even if you have a blush free epoxy!

Very true, however, window on this stuff allows weekend applications with full week of cure. I really like this epoxy. Wet out is quick and sure. Use the pumps to keep ratio perfect.

A quick brush up with the DA sander if you miss a weekend is easy.

[pcmm]

I've used WEST and others. I don't like th WEST pumps, I've never had a set of their pumps last for a whole gallon! currently my epoxy of choice (in canada) is EXP epoxy, ~30%. In the U.S. I used SEAHAWK epoxy. all good products never had any issues

[Lake-Effect]

My experience:

- you can't go wrong with WEST; they have a great range and all the accessories, wide availability and great literature

- that being said, I also used a gallon of EAST over a period of 4 years (chosen for cost, and it used WEST pumps) and I had no problems

- currently I'm using some house-branded epoxy from a nearby boat-building store. It has an easy 2:1 mix ratio, and is alleged to have almost no blushing. I find that it's runny and sets to a more flexible solid, which would be ideal for most home-made boat construction projects, but still useful for repairing FG boats with the right fillers.

So there can be differences between some epoxies. This review goes into more detail (from a kayak-building perspective). But it seems that all the major brands are good products, so it comes down to price, if you're buying a lot.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

- that being said, I also used a gallon of EAST over a period of 4 years (chosen for cost, and it used WEST pumps) and I had no problems

Question.. Could you tell the difference between West and East? I have laid up at least 15 things with both products and I cannot tell. I've even thought of getting my wife to do a blind mix for me to see if I could tell. Would love to hear if you have felt the same, or different.

At least where I bought them, the East is about %25 cheaper than West.

[JimsCAL]

I've used West (and like it) but I prefer MAS epoxies. I find the 2/1 ratio easier to deal with (especially n small batches) and no amine blush or bloom to get rid of before coating.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Question.. Could you tell the difference between West and East?

Honestly... no, for the repair projects I used them on. I've used a gallon of EAST, and only a few small batches of WEST (mooched from a friend).

Now, I'm a fairly uncritical user; I didn't get much chance to do successive layups fast enough to avoid having to wash off blush and then sand. A more skilled user could tell you more about the differences.

[Thumbs Up]

this stuff allows weekend applications with full week of cure

Epoxy :Â*Epoxy Resins and Hardeners

They say 28 hours maximum. I think that it should be soft enough to leave a fingerprint or at least a dent from a thumbnail. It completely depends on the temperature. Also non-blushing formulas can still blush. US composites 2:1 non blushing hardener is listed on it's MSDS as a "modified amine curing agent" which means that it is not amine free and under the wrong conditions could still blush. If there seems to be a slippery film on the surface after overnight curing, that is blush and must be removed (with water and scotchbrite, or wet sandpaper, a little bit of Dawn helps)

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Never combine systems or add anything to WEST epoxy that was not specifically recommended by the formulator. This is just foolhardy and Mickey Mouse, a science experiment.

Will you please elaborate? Especially the Mickey Mouse part. Because it seems you are passing subjective opinion as objective fact.

[john61ct]

I'm very happy when others experiment then post their results.

[capt jgw]

I've used WEST for decades and Total boat a few times. Can't tell the difference, and TB even recommends using WEST fillers. I wonder if TB is a contract manufacturing deal actually made by WEST? That's very common in other products. Or maybe the patents have expired allowing anyone to make the same formula.
Lately I've been using the US Composites 635 and I like it a lot. Definitely different than WEST or TB with it's 3:1 mix but works just as well. The only thing I don't like is thier pumps throw the same amount for resin and hardener. You have to count the three strokes resin to one stroke hardener. I've never lost count, but you could. I avoid that by going 3, 1, 3, 1, etc. That way I don't have to count 15 to 5, 21 to 7, etc. for larger batches.

[Nicholson58]

You can use any filler in any epoxy. Just don’t mess around with or cross-mix the resins and hardeners. I found that the pumps are about the best way to get the ratios correct and if you miss, it may never properly harden.

I know the epoxies favored my most are retail and so are easy to get. I still prefer US Composites 635THIN for all of my glass work. It has superior wet out, zero blush, lowest cost, longest working time, (hours). I keep a three gallon set on board and it keeps for years. Fringe Bennett is that you can clean your skin with liquid soap followed by water, no solvents. Altogether, I have used at least 15 gallons in deck work, new rudder, major and minor blisters. Most recently I repaired the shaft log on a weekend haul out at Jolly Harbor in Antigua (photos). Dig out, grind, de-grease, 15 layers of new glass over the 1984 cracked parts and re-bed the packing gland. Leak is history.

An improvement to mixing and application I learned is to use small throw away brushes (Home Depot) to mix and to apply. Mixing with a brush blends the resin and hardener better and faster and makes it possible to wipe the sides of your container so 100% or your material is mixed. Apply and spread with the brush. The brush is very effective on irregular surfaces such as my shaft log. On many areas, especially vertical or inverted, I cover with the thin film trash bag cut to fit beyond the repair. Tape if necessary. Use your hands to work out bubbles and excess resin. With a plastic sheet, the air stays out, surface is smooth, slump is eliminated. Use the crinkly, very thin high density polyethylene bags. They easily release from the cured epoxy. The photos show the smooth results on the shaft log below without finished grinding.

The area shown is about 20 inches wide.

[Captain Bucknut]

I've used Total Boat Total Protect barrier coat with great satisfaction. Application and cure time was as advertised. I use System Three 2 part epoxy for repotting holes for deck hardware. I try to follow the instructional videos that Jamestown Distributors provides as I do not like to make assumptions in mixing and application. I like JD as they often provide free shipping offers and I think anything over $50 is free shipping as well. The System Three I found through amazon as a prime item so only 2 days away and free shipping.

[john61ct]

What an incredible resource y'all are, thanks to CF for enabling this fantastic community.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Honestly... no, for the repair projects I used them on. I've used a gallon of EAST, and only a few small batches of WEST (mooched from a friend).

Now, I'm a fairly uncritical user; I didn't get much chance to do successive layups fast enough to avoid having to wash off blush and then sand. A more skilled user could tell you more about the differences.

Uncritical or not, I appreciate your response. Its interesting to hear that you didn't really see any differences either.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure that the two products are exactly the same. I'm not sure if they buy from the same supplier, or one cloned the other, but they are really damn close.

[thruska]

Doesn’t anyone here use Raka products out of Florida ?