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Old 06-09-2011, 18:32   #91
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Re: Welding at Sea

One thing about Wiki. If you don't like what it sayes, change it.
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Old 06-09-2011, 18:37   #92
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Re: Welding at Sea

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Hi Cruisers, being the owner of a 34ft Steel Sloop, I would like info regarding 'Do-it-yourself' welding repairs at sea.. what type welder is required to run from generator and what equipment do I need. The boat is constructed of corten steel. Could stainless steel be welded with this equipment (in emergency) and also any other advice is welcomed....cheers Harry 'FUTURE DAYS
How we got from the OP topic to welding titanium subs is beyond me.

This thread is adrift in a swift current with no steerage.
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Old 06-09-2011, 18:42   #93
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Re: Welding at Sea

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How we got from the OP topic to welding titanium subs is beyond me.

This thread is adrift in a swift current with no steerage.
I think all this stuff is interesting as all get out. There are a lot of opinions and information. Lot of knowlagable folks in here.
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Old 06-09-2011, 18:57   #94
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Re: Welding at Sea

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I think all this stuff is interesting as all get out. There are a lot of opinions and information. Lot of knowlagable folks in here.
OK and good for yea.

I was just hoping for some more information along the lines of something a duffer, such as myself, could use to get out of a jam.
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Old 06-09-2011, 19:08   #95
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Re: Welding at Sea

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Hobart 140
more oil
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Old 06-09-2011, 19:32   #96
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Re: Welding at Sea

I guess the Hobart, Linclon, Miller 120 volt migs would work for a small repair in an emergency. Not sure if you can get stainless wire for these machines or not. Weld quality would be iffy. There are flux cored stainless wires, but not sure if they are in the .045 size. If your welding stainless, I would go with a larger, engine powered welder. It may take up more room, but you can use it as a generator also. Cor-ten steel can be welded with 7018. But they make a flux core steel E70 series that works well on rusty and old metal, that is self shielded. Might try that.
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Old 06-09-2011, 19:33   #97
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Re: Welding at Sea

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If one remembers, the SU 27 was supposed to have used titanium also. But after getting one it did not. The Soviet's were famous for making claims.
You mean MIG-25. 'MIG Pilot' is a good read, written by the guy that defected. The Soviets didn't make any claims; our imaginations (some would call it analysis) tended to assume the worst case scenarios. Believe it or not, I think it's widely considered by the western navies that the Alfa's were titanium. When the government owns the mines, the smelters, the shipyards and all the workers, is not so much of a factor.
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Old 06-09-2011, 19:55   #98
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Re: Welding at Sea

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You mean MIG-25. 'MIG Pilot' is a good read, written by the guy that defected. The Soviets didn't make any claims; our imaginations (some would call it analysis) tended to assume the worst case scenarios. Believe it or not, I think it's widely considered by the western navies that the Alfa's were titanium. When the government owns the mines, the smelters, the shipyards and all the workers, is not so much of a factor.
Yes, the SU 25. And to it is widely believed by the western navies, at least the folks I have contact with, that titanium subs were a myth. Not that they did not build a few, but none of them were in service long. And like I said, the only titanium sub we know for sure, is at the bottom of the baltic sea.
The reason I do not believe they built titanium subs is the amount of titanium it would require. About 28000 tons of the stuff, if not more. IF the soviets were so titanium rich, why not put it to better use in their planes and tanks? Titanium tanks would serve much better, with their war plans, than subs. Had they used it in thier tanks, we did not have a weapon that would have been effective on a one round basis in the 70's. The soviets were always good at desiminating mis information. And it was the plans leaked for the SU 25 that gave us the idea that they finely used the titanium. But it was not ti they used, it was nickel. Steels are stronger and better suited for subs than titanium.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:29   #99
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Re: Welding at Sea

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Yes, the SU 25.
No - the MIG 25. SU is for Sukhoi, MIG is Mikoyan-Gurevich. MIG-25 Foxbat. Titanium would be a poor material for tanks; like aluminum or magnesium, it would burn. Tankers don't like that. And the MiG-25 did have a substantial number of components made from titanium, just not the whole of the airframe as had been supposed. You have to remember that the Foxbat was first flown in the mid-60s; the first titanium subs came more than a decade later; so advances in technologies would have been made. I don't see why you believe Komsomolets existed, but the others are fairy-tales?
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:04   #100
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Re: Welding at Sea

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No - the MIG 25. SU is for Sukhoi, MIG is Mikoyan-Gurevich. MIG-25 Foxbat. Titanium would be a poor material for tanks; like aluminum or magnesium, it would burn. Tankers don't like that. And the MiG-25 did have a substantial number of components made from titanium, just not the whole of the airframe as had been supposed. You have to remember that the Foxbat was first flown in the mid-60s; the first titanium subs came more than a decade later; so advances in technologies would have been made. I don't see why you believe Komsomolets existed, but the others are fairy-tales?
I am pretty sure it was the SU 25 that was reported to have a titanium air frame and titanium compressor blades in the engine, which was a step up in the soviet jets. Truth be known, they employed nickel in the compressor blades. I think your talking about the pilot that defected to Japan. The SU 25 was the ground support air craft that was deployed in Afganastan by the Soviets. The MiG 25 was the anti bomber/interceptor air craft. Foxbat. The SU 25 was the Frogfoot, I think.
There was only one Komsomolet I think. I think after it sunk, the design was scrapped. I have a hard time believing that the Soviets would use all of their resources in Subs. Titanium would have been better served in tanks and air craft. And what ever else I may think of the Soviets, they were not stupid. Tanks were, at that time, the Soviets primiary combat weapon. Their tactics were built around the tank. Titanium used in their tank armor would have rendered our TOW system almost useless. But they want me to believe that rather than employe their titanium in their primary combat weapon, they used it all in subs? Not buying it.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:18   #101
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Re: Welding at Sea

Why would anyone assume they would use titanium in the Frogfoot? It's a slow-flying close-air support bird, similar in use to the US's A-10. Like the A-10 the Frogfoot supposedly has a titanium armour 'tub' surrounding the cockpit. Undoubtedly it made use of titanium in other components too. The Foxbat is capable of flying over Mach 3 - at that speed the skin friction would cause aluminum alloys to melt. That is why western militaries thought it might be made from Ti. I've already told you why titanium is unsuitable for tanks.
BTW, Komsomolets (with an 's' on the end) is the name - there was only one.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:27   #102
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Re: Welding at Sea

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Why would anyone assume they would use titanium in the Frogfoot? It's a slow-flying close-air support bird, similar in use to the US's A-10. Like the A-10 the Frogfoot supposedly has a titanium armour 'tub' surrounding the cockpit. Undoubtedly it made use of titanium in other components too. The Foxbat is capable of flying over Mach 3 - at that speed the skin friction would cause aluminum alloys to melt. That is why western militaries thought it might be made from Ti. I've already told you why titanium is unsuitable for tanks.
BTW, Komsomolets (with an 's' on the end) is the name - there was only one.
It uses a jet engine. The A 10 uses titanium in its engine. Aslo uses a titanium plating for pilot armor in the cockpit. Almost ALL American and NATO jet engines use titanium for some compressor blades. Titanium extends the life of a jet engine. There were supposed to be titanium componets in the engines. It was basically a copy of the concept of of ground support which spawned the A 10 in the 70's. This came about from the Vietnam war which highlighted the need for solw, low flying, ground support aircraft.
That is a few of the reasons.

edit:
It might also be asked why the Foxbat contained nickle compressor blades instead of titanium also. Even the engines in commercial jet liners use titanium. UNLESS it is a soviet made engine.
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Old 07-09-2011, 18:37   #103
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Re: Welding at Sea

I thought this was clear; we were discussing the Soviet aircraft that was thought to have a titanium airframe and was discovered by the Americans to be made of steel.

Anyway we are way off topic and this horse is truly dead. I'm out of here.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:05   #104
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Back to poster, I use a cheap wire flux welder I bought at Harber Freight. It can run off of my generator, uses 120Volts. It took only a few hours of practice to learn how to use. (I had only welded 1 time before twenty years ago in shop class). Since then I have used it to make a variety of repairs to small and large steel objects, I have been able to weld upside down, and vertical welds in hard to reach areas.

They also sell auto dark helmets that are adjustable, (to recommended darkness for the welding you are doing). Being able to see clearly what you are about to weld up to the millisecond you strike the arc is a great help.

Hull repairs are probably best left to experts unless you want to take the time and effort to become really, (trained and proficient). But for those little repairs, cracked or corroded fittings, braces, rigging, etc... Having a small wire welder is really handy, and makes a better repair than glue.

I've had better luck with the angle grinder to prep, and to cleanup and grind flat ugly welds.
The one big advantage of flux wire over mig is you don't need to find a source of argon in undeveloped countries.
Thanks so much Captain Bill. I will check this out...sounds like it's the way I will go, thanks again...Harry
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:41   #105
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Re: Welding at Sea

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There used to be some nice pages on the web supplied by the DOE about using plasma lances and other cutting tools--but those were taken down after the US was conquered by Al-Queda in 2001. Too dangerous for civilians to know how to cut structural beams.
Thermite was also once used for quickie welds, but also banned.
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