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rmlarson1098 · 06-07-2018, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

You can store the tanks any way you want, you just have to use them right side up for the very reason you stated. The reason for the acetone is to contain the acetylene and prevent the acetylene from going "boom" as it is a very volatile gas. Also, if you have ideas on having the cylinders mounted remotely, do not use pure copper tube. Acetylene can form explosive compounds when exposed to copper although, oddly enough, alloys containing up to 70% of the stuff are fine.

You're probably right about storing the acetylene bottle laid down - I just couldn't do it. Had it pounded into my head for decades that you must keep them upright or the acetone will run out! Of course, it wouldn't run out if the valve is closed....right?
The DOT says all bottles must be upright when transported, but I don't think that's an issue at sea. Always, ALWAYS take the gauges off when the bottles are not in use.
Acetylene is unstable as you said, and could be explosive when pressurized to more than 15 psi. That's why there is a red warning line on all acetylene gauges at 15 psi. No reason to EVER exceed it as pressure for welding even with a large tip would be no more than 5 or 6 pounds. Oxygen set the same.
Even a modest acetylene bottle will last a LONG time if you're just welding.
Cutting is a different matter. You'll go thru so much oxygen it'll make your eyes water.
And I appreciate the information regarding why one can't weld with oxygen/propane! That makes complete sense. We always hated cutting with LP, so slow! Hydrogen (water) is a problem with any weld process, and I can just imagine the mess.

topmast · 06-07-2018, 19:23

Forgot to mention that the acetylene molecule (C2H2) has multiple bond joining the two carbon atoms together. At 14.7 psi they tend to come undone in the gauge and hose causing a surprise.Hence the red line. On a similar saftey note ,had a job cutting scrap warehouses in what used to be the Woolich Arsenal in England. Used propane (cheap) and oxygen in big bottles. Flat deck lorry comes in with a load How many? KIcks them off on to the concrete. I'm retreated to a large pillar. She'll be right 'he says they got they caps on.

leftbrainstuff · 06-07-2018, 19:43

Low duty cycle and a modern inverter welder will work. I also pulse stainless and this helps to minimize power consumption.

I only tig now so you"ll need to carry argon. Doubles as engine room extinguisher.

AKA-None · 06-07-2018, 20:52

I can’t believe people are suggesting oxy-acetaline welding over tig because of the gas bottle. An oxidant and an explosive gas. On a boat? Really? And the complain about a atomic 4 and gas?

Zai · 06-07-2018, 21:47

I have a Jasic 200 amp ac/dc pulse tig welder aboard. (weld aluminum and stainless) I carry a 30 liter bottle of argon.

It is an inverter machine, but my electrician said that it would not be good to run it solely off of the inverter, he told me I could run it when I am connected to shore power.

It welds very nice.

My inverter is a Studer, it puts out 2500 watts continuous and can handle surges to 4800 watts for some minutes according to the specs. My shore power is hooked up through the inverter.

castman · 07-07-2018, 08:36

Roland,

Just as an FYI, I have been involved with welding what seems like forever. Most of my experience is with stick and TIG, with a little MIG. That being said, I offer the following information, but would like some additional information for clarification.

Is your welder an inverter welder that can run on both 110 or 220v and if I may ask, what brand welder? Is is AC only or DC and AC? What is the maximum rated amperage setting?

Assuming it is not an inverter welder and is a dedicated 220 machine, I don't believe your generator will handle it. Also, I have a 220 Miller Synchrowave 180SD that runs on 220 only AND it also has a 60 Amp breaker as well. This 60A breaker is mainly used for welding aluminum on AC. A minimum 30A is probably required for run of the mill welding. I would advise talking to the welding machine supplier and ask what they recommend. If it is a big box store, forget that. It has been my experience, that their welding knowledge is pretty limited. If it is a welding supply store they should be able to help you.

However, back to your question, an inverter welder on 110V seems to work well with a generator. I have seen numerous applications where race teams have such a setup and it works just fine. That is if you aren't welding half inch plate over a long weld.

Being a boater myself, I am curious what you will be welding on your boat using the 6013 stick electrode? I say that as there is nothing on my boat that would require any kind of stick weld. If you are planning on welding cast or stainless it will, depending on alloy, require another wire/electrode and might require you brush up on your TIG skills.

Castman

Mr B · 09-07-2018, 00:08

I bought an invertor welder to take on my boat, Its 240 volt which my 5000 pure sine Invertor will run,
12 volt to 240 volt invertor, 5000 Watt with a 10,000 Watt surge, Invertor,
It has stick and TIG welding,
It will run a 4mm Low Hydrogen stick electrode very easily,

I dont use the TIG side as I can buy Stainless steel electrodes to do any job I need in Stainless,
I use Ferrocraft 21 electrodes for welding almost every thing, Except special steels,
Plus carrying Argon around is very expensive, Bottle rental,
I am also a professional Tig welder, Many stainless steel pressure vessels I have manufactured

First piccy is my 225 amp mobile welder which earned my living, It weighed 3/4 Ton,
This one replaced my AS 400, Which was only idling with 3 mm electrodes and was glazing up the bores, It weighed 2 Ton,

2nd and 3rd Piccy is my 240 volt MIG welder which I weld up any thing with,
Change the wire and gas for every thing that I weld, Mild, Stainless, Etc,
Size of weld is irrelevant,

3rd and 4th Piccy is my invertor welder, Stick and Tig attachments for on my boat, $800-00 with all attachments. Hoses, gauges, excluding the bottle of gas,

5th Piccy is to show you can Mig weld outside in the wind if you sheild the gas from the wind, Otherwise you get porosity in the welds,

I am a professional welder with certificates in Xray welding,

FWIW, I am an Engineering Blacksmith that can Forge Weld and Guarantee the welds 100 %, Yes, Im an old fart, Hahaha

john61ct · 09-07-2018, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr B

3rd and 4th Piccy is my invertor welder, Stick and Tig attachments for on my boat, $800-00 with all attachments. Hoses, gauges, excluding the bottle of gas

Could you speak to how this rig would do for welding structural aluminum, say 1/4-1/2"?

Stick for rough and windy, TIG for indoors and looking pretty, is that right?

What rods, settings, gas mix etc?

And are you looking for an apprentice? 8-)

Pauls · 09-07-2018, 15:26

I want to second the previous comment about the danger of having oxygen bottles onboard, with either propane or acetylene. In the event of a fire the oxygen tank will overheat and will eventually burst a rupture disc intended to protect against the bottle exploding (which would be like a bomb). When the disc ruptures the boat interior will be flooded with pure oxygen and will either burn like holy hell (almost everything burns in presence of pure oxygen) or it will explode. I have seen this happen on a ship and it is not something you want to mess with. My opinion, as someone who is an engineer, a long time welder and who has built several boats, is that you are far best served onboard with some form of electrical welding, either stick, MIG or TIG. For my boat it is stick

Reefmagnet · 09-07-2018, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauls

I want to second the previous comment about the danger of having oxygen bottles onboard, with either propane or acetylene. In the event of a fire the oxygen tank will overheat and will eventually burst a rupture disc intended to protect against the bottle exploding (which would be like a bomb). When the disc ruptures the boat interior will be flooded with pure oxygen and will either burn like holy hell (almost everything burns in presence of pure oxygen) or it will explode. I have seen this happen on a ship and it is not something you want to mess with. My opinion, as someone who is an engineer, a long time welder and who has built several boats, is that you are far best served onboard with some form of electrical welding, either stick, MIG or TIG. For my boat it is stick

While that's true, the sad fact is that if you reach the point where your rupturing bursting discs on oxy, acetylene or propane cylinders you're already in a world of hurt on a small boat.

Mr B · 09-07-2018, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct

Could you speak to how this rig would do for welding structural aluminum, say 1/4-1/2"?

Stick for rough and windy, TIG for indoors and looking pretty, is that right?

What rods, settings, gas mix etc?

And are you looking for an apprentice? 8-)

Use the Mig for aluminium,
Stick, any where, in all conditions,
Tig, any where you can shield the gas from draughts,

Mild Steel, Ferrocraft 21. E 4814, E 7014, Stick electrodes, These are all the same electrode, Worldwide,

Stainless Steel electrodes, Weldall,

Mig, Use S6 wire,

I have been retired for a few years and no I dont want an apprentice,
Me, On the job, before OH&S stepped in, Hahahaha

Cheers, Brian,

hzcruiser · 09-07-2018, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That'd rape the batteries.
Would they ever recover from that abuse?

I wouldn't call it rape, it's all about the currents involved and for how long. If you weld at about 40A that's less than the starter motor takes, which can be around 100A.

Of course, the starter motor only runs for a few seconds but the currents themselves don't hurt your batteries if they are, say, at least double that capacity: so 80Ah or more for 40A draw. That's a 0.5C discharge current which is not a problem for LFP batts and would give lead-acids a good workout.

You just need to keep an eye on your welding time: if using 40A you might want to limit it to 60 mins actual flame on per session and replenish those 40Ah you just took out as soon as possible. I'd think for most repairs and non-professional welding jobs that's more than enough time.

john61ct · 10-07-2018, 14:50

Run that level of charge in while welding, just use the bank as a buffer.

Fence Man · 25-10-2018, 21:22

This thread is one of the reasons I prefer forums over facebook. There is quite a collection of practical intelligence assembled here, and the knowledge gleaned is transferable to most any real world problem that needs solving. We've begun installing Zena welders, which I discovered early in this thread, on our fencing machines. They are a hit, and quite the kit. The hydraulic drive units were priced out of our market, so we went with a belt drive 200 amp welders, and coupled them to hydraulic motors. This solved several of the challenges we encountered trying to stuff them under the hood, and made for a more economic installation. I decided to upgrade the first batch to eliminate the chances of damaging the stinger mounted controls, as I believe that life on a fence crew could prove a little rough for that setup. Good clean arc, even at very low amperage. Most fence welding is less than 50 amps, so low end control was very important. Anyhow, thanks!