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Old 18-10-2015, 13:40   #16
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Originally Posted by coastalexplorer View Post
Why do people who own GRP boats made with Polyester resin immediately think about buying and using expensive Epoxy resin when ever they contemplate a repair?
That seems so wasteful and pointless. IS this a quest for a miracle that really is not necessary? and how did Epoxy get viewed as the miraculous 'Do It Yourself' universal repair material ?



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Core bond is ideal for this. Costs $85 per fiver. Pump it in with a grease gun. If you thin it with a bit of poly resin, it pumps easier and flows out. Not as slow cure and flexible if you do though.
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Old 19-10-2015, 10:33   #17
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

Mineret
How do you pump resin ,core bond with a grease gun? "Pumping sticky stuff with a grease gun 101"


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Old 19-10-2015, 10:49   #18
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Mineret
How do you pump resin ,core bond with a grease gun? "Pumping sticky stuff with a grease gun 101"


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Buy a cheap new manual grease gun, so it's not contaminated. Drill, tap, and screw in a zerk fitting. Drill a hole to relieve air pressure. Fill grease gun with catalyzed poly goo, attach to fitting, and pump. Refill and repeat as necessary till goo comes out your top vent hole. Voila!
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Old 19-10-2015, 11:09   #19
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

Well........ I would be looking for how the water got into the keel first. I don't think that has been determined...? You need to fix that. Once you do , just seal up the keel again no need to fill with anything, although you can if you want.
There must be a leak in the bilge or top of the sealed keel cavity somewhere. a small crack will do it.
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Old 19-10-2015, 11:39   #20
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

You said the bilge drained after opening the keel? Run a hose into the bilge for a few minutes and then see how long it takes to drain again. This will give you an idea of how big a hole you're looking for. A dripping leak like a small crack or an uncaulked screw won't drain quickly.

But as others have said, a lead keel in a fiberglass cavity doesn't really care if it's wet. there are thousands of encapsulated keel boats and many have had water in the keel at some point for long periods of time with no ill effects.

There are probably an even larger number of boats with water in their foam filled rudders -- and that IS a problem since the internal stainless reinforcement can eventually corrode. The water usually leaks in at the top where the shaft enters. It's always a good idea to drill a hole in the bottom of your rudder every few years to see if water comes out.
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Old 19-10-2015, 12:23   #21
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Buy a cheap new manual grease gun, so it's not contaminated. Drill, tap, and screw in a zerk fitting. Drill a hole to relieve air pressure. Fill grease gun with catalyzed poly goo, attach to fitting, and pump. Refill and repeat as necessary till goo comes out your top vent hole. Voila!

So no cartridge in the gun, never used one without a cartridge . I'll have to look at some cheap harbor freight guns to see how this would work. Thanks


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Old 19-10-2015, 12:48   #22
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

Assuming you'll find a way to dry it out, and to stop new water from coming into your bilge...You'll never have "clean" surfaces inside the keel for the epoxy to really bond to, so it is just an expensive filler. I'd be tempted to consider using a urethane expanding foam (like "Great Stuff" but in a larger package) injected through 1/4" or 3/8" holes drilled in a checkboard pattern on the keel. Mainly because the urethane foam actually absorbs water while it cures. It expands as it cures. And it forms a damned tenacious bond to all sorts of surfaces, just as good as epoxy for this purpose.
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Old 19-10-2015, 12:55   #23
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

For just filling a void like this polyester would work. For laminating fiberglass onto an existing hull polyester does not work so well. It is not a very good glue and the patch might not hold. The fact that the boat was originally made with polyester doesn't have anything to do with it. The original lamination was done pretty much all at once and it is a homogenous matrix. Poly is fine for that, but putting new glass onto old, not so much.
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Old 19-10-2015, 13:27   #24
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

I may have missed it, but the water coming out of the original defect, did it smell like vinegar and was it a light brown? Could it have been a blister that you were digging out? I have never heard of blisters forming on the inside of the hull, between the glass and lead, but I guess it might be possible.... if sea water is just sitting down in there for 10 years?
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Old 19-10-2015, 14:04   #25
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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I may have missed it, but the water coming out of the original defect, did it smell like vinegar and was it a light brown? Could it have been a blister that you were digging out? I have never heard of blisters forming on the inside of the hull, between the glass and lead, but I guess it might be possible.... if sea water is just sitting down in there for 10 years?
One boat I had (1985 build) had blisters in the bilge.... and the bilge was gel coated too. I had never seen it before either, but then had never really looked for it. Blisters outside also. Bilge area in question was always dry. I assume the glass was pretty saturated. For this reason I would prefer to have the leak into the keel on the boat mentioned by the OP sealed. Although it could take decades for problems I suppose. :>)
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Old 19-10-2015, 14:30   #26
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

Personally I'd be less worried about water going from top down than from bottom up. If there are any more of these defects in the hull or keel, better to find them now. I just spent the weekend digging out blisters on a friend's boat and though most were shallow, I was surprised how deep a few were. They did not penetrate the hull entirely, but perhaps in some hulls the blister could bleed water all the way in? Never heard of it but...
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:11   #27
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Originally Posted by capt jgw View Post
For just filling a void like this polyester would work. For laminating fiberglass onto an existing hull polyester does not work so well. It is not a very good glue and the patch might not hold. The fact that the boat was originally made with polyester doesn't have anything to do with it. The original lamination was done pretty much all at once and it is a homogenous matrix. Poly is fine for that, but putting new glass onto old, not so much.
Just not true.
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:40   #28
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
One boat I had (1985 build) had blisters in the bilge.... and the bilge was gel coated too. I had never seen it before either, but then had never really looked for it. Blisters outside also. Bilge area in question was always dry. I assume the glass was pretty saturated. For this reason I would prefer to have the leak into the keel on the boat mentioned by the OP sealed. Although it could take decades for problems I suppose. :>)
Wow, just curious, what boat is it that has a gel-coated bilge?
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:56   #29
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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Originally Posted by capt jgw View Post
For just filling a void like this polyester would work. For laminating fiberglass onto an existing hull polyester does not work so well. It is not a very good glue and the patch might not hold. The fact that the boat was originally made with polyester doesn't have anything to do with it. The original lamination was done pretty much all at once and it is a homogenous matrix. Poly is fine for that, but putting new glass onto old, not so much.
er....... I do it all the time.

But then I also thought betamax would be the accepted format over VHS.

go figure.
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Old 19-10-2015, 16:41   #30
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Re: Water from bilge infiltrating keel with encapsulated ballast

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So no cartridge in the gun, never used one without a cartridge . I'll have to look at some cheap harbor freight guns to see how this would work. Thanks


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You can get empty cartridges. Or use a bulk fill gun. Empty carts are much cleaner if you can find them.
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