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Old 09-01-2012, 10:23   #121
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

FWIW TBT paint is banned on commercial large vessels, certainly on UK flag and most others that I am aware of. My current (new) ship has the following active ingredients in its Jotun anti-fouling: Cuprous Oxide (Copper), Cuprous Pyrithione (Copper), Zinc Ethylene Bis-dithiocarbamate (who knows). The point of anti-fouling is that it IS toxic. My local marina which is more or less full, is full of sea life living on the pontoons so I'd not say the copper leaching out of the boats was causing mass die-offs.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:46   #122
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

What I dont understand about bottom paints with minimally toxic things like copper is... it kills slowly.... as such, it does little good as a bottom paint. Dead barnacles on the hull are as much an issue as live ones. Maybe it kills the slime, I dont know, but slime regrows pretty fast... What we need is BP that things dont like when first contact is made!
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:54   #123
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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What I dont understand about bottom paints with minimally toxic things like copper is... it kills slowly.... as such, it does little good as a bottom paint. Dead barnacles on the hull are as much an issue as live ones. Maybe it kills the slime, I dont know, but slime regrows pretty fast... What we need is BP that things dont like when first contact is made!
Or something they can't stick to............
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:07   #124
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I understand that they are trying to come up with a glue using the sticky stuff that barnacles use to adhere to the hulls of ships.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:31   #125
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Regardless of how one feels about it, we might as well get used to it. Personally, I'm all for keeping the poisons out of the water and think we should be doing a lot more, both on the water and on land.

Of course, the law still gives some time before compliance is required, but I've got a haul out set up for later this week. I'm going to go ahead and put on ePaint's SN-1, as they say it can go right over my current Micron 66. The ePaint has gotten very good reviews, has been used by the CG for the last several years, is safe to go on the aluminum sail drives, and it's even significantly cheaper than the Micron. If it works as well (or even close), then what's not to like?

Ask me in a year what I really think about it!

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Old 09-01-2012, 23:17   #126
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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My local marina which is more or less full, is full of sea life living on the pontoons so I'd not say the copper leaching out of the boats was causing mass die-offs.
Is that your criteria for excessive water pollution- mass die-offs? Anything up to that is OK?
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Old 09-01-2012, 23:32   #127
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Is that your criteria for excessive water pollution- mass die-offs? Anything up to that is OK?
Not hardly, I was being sarcastic which obviously failed to register. Having said that I'd like to know how you can have a non-toxic anti foul?
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Old 09-01-2012, 23:42   #128
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Not hardly, I was being sarcastic which obviously failed to register. Having said that I'd like to know how you can have a non-toxic anti foul?
Poison is not the only way to keep fouling organisms from attaching.

http://ucanr.org/sites/coast/files/48352.pdf
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Old 10-01-2012, 00:35   #129
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

If I permanently attach 40 feet of floating line to my stern, that makes my LOA 66 feet right?
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Old 10-01-2012, 00:36   #130
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Interesting paper BUT from what I can understand the whole thrust of the paper was that irrespective of the paint in use the hull needed to be scrubbed at less than monthly intervals. Given that in the UK (and so far as I know in Europe generally) having a diver regularly scrub the boat does not happen I don't see it as the way forward. Some kind of coating which prevented growth adhering maybe, but none of the ones discussed seemed to manage that too well. Large ships use some self polishing paints which work tolerably well but you need to be moving through the water over a certain speed sand for as much time as possible. Something that does not apply to recreational craft other than trailer launched powered craft. Given that my boat is afloat year round in salt water and I cannot scrub it on a weekly basis for now I'll be sticking with conventional anti-fouling. Fortunately I am not in California!
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:12   #131
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Is that your criteria for excessive water pollution- mass die-offs? Anything up to that is OK?
Probably as good a standard as the rest of the junk science these days.

Just saying
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:41   #132
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I wonder what the position will be on yachts that have coppercoat style systems on their boat (i.e. copper particles in epoxy), or actual copper sheets.

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Old 10-01-2012, 03:01   #133
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

When I was buying our catamaran in San Diago some boats in neighboring 40 ft slips had a floating rubberised ( thing the size of the slip) in there slips that the boats parked in to keep growth off, I had it's own water inside the big rubber floating pool that I would guess kept the water different from the marina water so growth would no start in it and kept the boat bottom clean. I guess it would only work on catamarans without keels and swing keel monohulls and power boats that the motors that lift.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:10   #134
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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When I was buying our catamaran in San Diago some boats in neighboring 40 ft slips had a floating rubberised ( thing the size of the slip) in there slips that the boats parked in to keep growth off, I had it's own water inside the big rubber floating pool that I would guess kept the water different from the marina water so growth would no start in it and kept the boat bottom clean. I guess it would only work on catamarans without keels and swing keel monohulls and power boats that the motors that lift.
These are commonly called a "boat bag" (or some derevation thereof) and I have seen both sailboats and powerboats in them. They seem to work fairly well (you have to regularly add chlorine to the water) but because they must be a real PITA to use, they never have caught on here. In the In Austrailia (where in-water hull cleaning is severely restricted) they are very popular, apparently.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:17   #135
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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I wonder what the position will be on yachts that have coppercoat style systems on their boat (i.e. copper particles in epoxy), or actual copper sheets.
The issue in California (both at the local level and statewide) and proposed restrictions concern "anti fouling paint", which has a pretty narrow legal definition. Copper-loaded epoxies and copper sheathing are not anti fouling paints and are not affected, I believe.
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