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Old 11-05-2011, 19:39   #61
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
And they all have their particular political motivations...
Rich yachties ad nauseum...
so no amount of empirical evidence will ever convince anyone who makes judgments solely on perception?

As a whole, the NGOs, government and academic institutions ALL agree even thought they ALL have conflicting biases. An objective analysis of that can lead to only one conclusion.
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Old 11-05-2011, 19:50   #62
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

This article was the comprehensible to the average Joe, doesn't give much information on effects on marine life but does put concentrations and sources into perspective. Perhaps it will earn me another rude response.

http://www.chemet.com/file.asp?F=Cop...PDF&C=articles
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Old 11-05-2011, 23:38   #63
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I used to use TBT on my aluminum schooner. It was hideous stuff, but effective. Its cost to my water world was huge, however. A friend had a similar aluminum boat and he used a paint called No-Foul, out of Mass, which had neither tin nor copper and worked okay. Not great, but okay. That paint is no longer in production, as No-Foul, last I checked was making copper paint. [Incidentally, my '03 Chev S10 has never had copper brake pads and has always had good brakes.] I am willing to pay more for paint that is better for the environment. At the same time, the disparity between under and over 65' boats is totally unacceptable. It is undeniably true that the ultra rich and the corporations are having way too much influence on laws like this one [and worse] which are being constantly passed at state and federal levels. It is like the IRS which harrasses small and medium business owners, while leaving the big ones alone. We can't afford tha lawyers. Simple as that. If we could afford lawyers, our boats would all be over 65'.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:34   #64
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

The three major marine-paint companies: Interlux (Pacifica), Pettit (Vivid Free) and Sea Hawk (Smart Solution); now offer eco-friendlier products that fall into three general categories: low copper, copper-free and biocide-free.

The Bottom Line: Bottom Painting | Article | READ PAST ARTICLES | Chesapeake Bay Magazine

InterluxPacifica Plus Antifouling Boat Paint | Interlux

Pettit ➥ Pettit Marine Paints - Browse Catalog

Sea Hawk ➥ Smart Solution

ECONEA™ is a metal-free antifouling agent for use in antifouling coatings to be applied on the underwater part of ship and boat hulls or static marine structures.*
* Common name (ISO): Tralopyril
Chemical name: 2-(p-chlorophenyl)-3-cyano-4-bromo-5-trifluoromethyl pyrrole
CAS number: 122454-29-9
Molecular formula: C12H5BrCIF3N2

http://www.janssenpmp.com/content/ho...pdf/Econea.pdf
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:54   #65
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

The publisher of Latitude 38 reports that he's had good results with non-copper bottom paint...

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We've had three different Econea-based test paints on the bottom of our boat over the last few years, and all have performed as well as or better than the 67% copper control paint.
Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:32   #66
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

If the non copper paints are so great, why does the law exempts government and commercial etc?
That's the big question.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:47   #67
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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If the non copper paints are so great, why does the law exempts government and commercial etc?
That's the big question.

Yes that is a great question!
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:51   #68
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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If the non copper paints are so great, why does the law exempts government and commercial etc?
That's the big question.
Without those exemptions, there would certainly be more incentive to develop paints that work. The minute after you require the Coast Guard to use the type of paints recreational boaters have to use, you'll see a scurry to come up with something that works.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:42   #69
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Without those exemptions, there would certainly be more incentive to develop paints that work. The minute after you require the Coast Guard to use the type of paints recreational boaters have to use, you'll see a scurry to come up with something that works.
Many times challenges such as "develop paints that work" fall into "the cannot be one" category!
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:05   #70
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Many times challenges such as "develop paints that work" fall into "the cannot be one" category!
Or are worse then then starting point later on.

I think there will be something made at some point, will it be before it is needed or will it be cost affective?
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Old 12-05-2011, 13:54   #71
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Does anyone really believe that some entrepreneurial outfit will not jump into this niche with an effective product? Sure there may be scams, but an industry standard will appear. You are looking at a multimillion dollar market!
I completely agree and that's what I am afraid of. My yard bill will be high enough this year. Multimillion's are a bit out of my reach.

Todd
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Old 12-05-2011, 19:59   #72
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
So in a few years we'll be crashing our cars due to ineffective brakes on the way to the boatyard where we would have applied our ineffective bottom paint?

<sarcasm>
But this is the only way to repair the damage to Puget's Sound/Hood's Canal caused by Dioxyn buildup and Oxygen depletion...ummm...wait...where does copper abulative paint fit into that senario? Must be another Puget Sound. It couldn't be a shoreside problem, industry and 4 million people within 20 miles of the water. Brakes are overated anyway, you only need a go pedal.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:10   #73
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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But this is the only way to repair the damage to Puget's Sound/Hood's Canal caused by Dioxyn buildup and Oxygen depletion...ummm...wait...where does copper abulative paint fit into that senario? Must be another Puget Sound. It couldn't be a shoreside problem, industry and 4 million people within 20 miles of the water. Brakes are overated anyway, you only need a go pedal.

I assume you mean dioxin. Also, copper leaches from all bottom paints, not just ablatives ("abulative [sp]). Here's an idea for all the folks who don't like incremental steps - pay 10 times your current property and income tax and vote only for politicians who promise to increase your taxes so that municipalities can afford to eliminate all the combined sewer overflows from which most of the toxic dioxin and oxygen depleting organics come.

If you really want to know where the problem lies, look in the mirror.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:17   #74
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What if?

If you really want something done, then flip the law making all boats OVER 65' and commercial vessels be the ones required to be copper free then exempt the recreational boats. And see what happens.

I haven't done the math but I would think one large tanker ship or cruise ship probably has just a many sq. ft. below the waterline as all of the boats in the Shilshole Marina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senormechanico
If the non copper paints are so great, why does the law exempts government and commercial etc?
That's the big question.
Because that's what government officials always do, exempt themselves from any laws that they pass. Todays governments favor themselves and use the people to grow even larger, under the impression that it's FOR the people.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:21   #75
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Re: What if?

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If you really want something done, then flip the law making all boats OVER 65' and commercial vessels be the ones required to be copper free then exempt the recreational boats. And see what happens. (
Delmarry exactly my point. If copper is so bad, ban it entirely. Instead you have a bad law signed into law by a really bad Governor.

Brad
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