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Old 10-05-2011, 15:35   #31
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Wasn't it Blackstone's book that said something like ' The needs of the many out wigh the needs of the few' ?
that was Mr Spock....

; -)

and while not thrilled to hear about the changes I have to offer up that USUALLY in hindsight environmental protection laws have been in the best interest of everyone.. if not exactly convenient or well received by those inconvenienced...

perhaps that will be the case here as well...

After all, Japan is making prop 15 look pretty successful...
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Old 10-05-2011, 15:39   #32
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

favorite bumper sticker:

"If you don't like the nanny state, stop acting like a child!"
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Old 10-05-2011, 15:56   #33
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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There are a myriad of copper-free bottom paints already on the market and widely available. That some would ask why it isn't available is quite telling.

Most of us do know they are out there. The problem is that even with the current copper based paints you can not generally have a lot of belief they work. Now the choice is something that is more costly that we know even less about.
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:06   #34
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Don't propellers have copper? We need to ban those as well.

I have a boat with an aluminum hull and can tell you from experience that the non-copper paint I have to use is absolute garbage. It starts fouling within a few weeks of application. It is one of the name brand paints that I am certain most of you have heard of.

I would not put it past some people to start smuggling copper or TBT based paints into California and Washington State boatyards.

Dirty bottoms on power driven commercial vessels I am certain will cause more pollution than the pollution from their copper based hull paint.
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:19   #35
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I am angry and dissapointed in Wa. State Govt. and I will vote accordingly.
Jesse
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:25   #36
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

TBT is still legal on aluminum isn't it?
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:26   #37
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

It was banned outright about 5 or 6 years ago now for commercial aluminum vessels.
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Old 10-05-2011, 21:41   #38
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I would like to see the study that says copper based paints are destroying marine life to the extent it affects ecosystem beyond the ports
And I would like to see a bottom paint that works w/o copper that, BTW, would also destroy marine life. How else is one going to keep the little buggers off the boat. Even ultrasound devices don't work. If they can come up with a bottom coating that works, I'd be one of the first to be in line to get it. Because I HATE sanding bottom paint.

Back in the good ole days (1980) when I lived aboard in Mission Bay some tried using teflon paint. Sea life wouldn't stick to it but the paint wouldn't stick to the boat either.

It all comes down to politics. Someone trying to make themselves look good by making others look bad! It's always the little guy that gets hit on. While the big guy sits back laughs off the expenses.

And why is it that things get banned before someone can come up with an alternative? I can see it already, there's going to be a black market on green colored bottom paint in the border cities. And some politician is going to profit from that too by boosting up the cost and looking the other way.
This going to be as bad as the global warming syndrome.
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Old 10-05-2011, 22:38   #39
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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I thought there was already some regulations in MD about this.

Sorry folks, I agree.
We need to stop polluting the waterways.
Banning copper paint will force some entrepeneur to come up with a green alternative. The manufacturers have not had the incentive to do so, so far.
If legislation can cause solutions then I propose the following law:

Everyone must be able to afford a boat that they would like....

according to the above philosophy.... an entrepreneur will come along and make it happen.. Right....?

Or we can go all out... When I become Dictator (note the capitalization) I shall mandate that everyone in my country MUST BE HAPPY. To make the citizenry take this law seriously there shall be capital punishment for failure to comply. I am sure a free poll will show that I will be ruling the Happiest place on Earth......
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Old 10-05-2011, 22:45   #40
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Might not just be issues with the paint in the water... maybe the production of it and the disposal of it need to be taken into account to get a real picture of the possible impact.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:10   #41
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I expect there is many answers as why they would do it. Populations are increasing and so are the amount of coastline given over to marinas and the bays taken up by mooring. In Canada, I imagine many other countries too, copper based (copper chromate?) treated woods have been banned for use in water for sometime.

Bottom paints will change in a way that limits the release of copper in the waters.
The presumption that to be effective a bottom paint must be toxic to marine life seems questionable to me. It seems the goal is for it to repel bottom life not kill it and specifically the goal is to repel it from the painted surface.

Instead of railing against the inevitable time might be better spent looking at the other solutions. Are these any good?
E Paint Company - antifouling environmentally friendly boat paint

Hard slick surfaces that with reduced copper content in areas where copper is still acceptable might avoid getting to point where an outright ban on copper is required. I've been using a hard paint and it does get more growth then ablatives but it also releases less copper. I saw a boat pulled using Epoxycop recently and it had almst no growth after a year of sitting at anchor with Epoxycop.

Any of you still paint your walls with lead based paint?
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Old 11-05-2011, 13:16   #42
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Well, the marine life in Kingston Cove Marina does not appear to be in any danger based on observation. We have huge schools of Pacific Smelt (soon to be on the endagered list), which are continuously preyed on by salmon (also in the marina, seen them myself), seals, otters, great blue herons, king fishers, gulls, terns, various species of ducks and cormorants not to mention all the pile perch and many other varieties of small fish that thrive there, plus a healthy crab population on the bottom, clams, you name it. Giant sunstars that live quite well feeding on the prolific growth of tube worms, mussels, sponges, etc.that thrive just a foot and a half from my copper coated hull. We even have oysters growing over next to the boat launch. It has been this way for the last 25 years that I know of. I realize this observation is not scientific testing and I'm not trying to over simplify the argument, but I would be interested to see the results if someone was to take water samples from the marina, open water in Puget Sound and the open ocean off the penisula and have them all anylized for copper content and compared. That should shed some light on the validity of this poorly executed legislation. I haven't done any reserch yet on the potential harm that copper bottom paints may be responsible for, but based on past performance of this particular politician, my first reaction is high suspicion.
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Old 11-05-2011, 14:02   #43
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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. I realize this observation is not scientific testing and... I'm not trying to over simplify the argument,........ samples from the marina, open water in Puget Sound and the open ocean off the penisula and have them all anylized for copper content and compared. .

The first part of this phrase is self-evident.

If you really want to find out the real story, analytical data can easily be had from any number of academic institutions, local or state government, EPA, etc... as well as a number of non-profit green-sneaker type organizations, any of whom can validate the premise copper concentrations in both the water column and sediment are highest in areas with large numbers of boats.

do the research and come back
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Old 11-05-2011, 14:15   #44
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Our catamaran has copper paint on it that was redone last year in San Diego. I'm guessing that the problem is when resurfaceing the bottom paint you have to sand off some copper paint in boat yards and what do you do with the boat yards rain runoff with toxic copper paint in it. I haven't heard what WA's boat yards have to say about dealing with the toxic mess that ends up on there property ???
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Old 11-05-2011, 14:20   #45
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
The first part of this phrase is self-evident.

If you really want to find out the real story, analytical data can easily be had from any number of academic institutions, local or state government, EPA, etc... as well as a number of non-profit green-sneaker type organizations, any of whom can validate the premise copper concentrations in both the water column and sediment are highest in areas with large numbers of boats.

do the research and come back
And they all have their particular political motivations...
Rich yachties ad nauseum...
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