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Old 12-01-2012, 08:55   #181
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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If everybody would put the money and effort into further development of the boat scrubbing robot instead of these political tainted research projects, we could have done away with antifouling completely by now.
Bwahahahaha! Not biting!
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:12   #182
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Most of those uses wouldn't be as politically soft as a target.
That's why we're in the cross hairs.
You nailed it.

Government owned sources of pollution such as street runoff and sewage treatment plants that are overwhelmed during major storm events are at least 99% of the problem...at least in the SF Bay and other urban harbors.

Boat owners are an easy target to pick on and in reality are a drop in the bucket of the real problem.

The environmental groups would better serve the environment if they went after the government agencies who are responsible for the pollution.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:19   #183
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Government owned sources such as street runoff and sewage treatment plants that are overwhelmed during major storm events are at least 99% of the problem.

Boat owners are an easy target to pick on...
Raw sewage and copper loading are not the same issue yet they always seem to get lumped together. And I don't know how accurate it is to say that boat owners are an easy target either. It was boat owners that forced the change in the very nature of SB 623 last year and it was boat owners that have now got that piece of legislation tabled. And if you remember a few years ago when the feds wanted every registered boat to have to carry a permit for all possible discharges, it was boat owners that got that lunacy scrapped.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:21   #184
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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You nailed it.

Government owned sources of pollution such as street runoff and sewage treatment plants that are overwhelmed during major storm events are at least 99% of the problem...at least in the SF Bay and other urban harbors.

Boat owners are an easy target to pick on and in reality are a drop in the bucket of the real problem.

The environmental groups would better serve the environment if they went after the government agencies who are responsible for the pollution.

That's the turth. Govt is always coming up with stuff that makes them look good at the expensive of a small group they aren't worried about. Most people aren't going to feel bad about a bunch of "rich" boaters
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:24   #185
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Raw sewage and copper loading are not the same issue yet they always seem to get lumped together. And I don't know how accurate it is to say that boat owners are an easy target either. It was boat owners that forced the change in the very nature of SB 623 last year and it was boat owners that have now got that piece of legislation tabled. And if you remember a few years ago when the feds wanted every registered boat to have to carry a permit for all possible discharges, it was boat owners that got that lunacy scrapped.
I am refering to all types of pollution and not just copper.

For regulatory agencies and legislators, individual citizens do make easier targets than other government agencies. It's sort of why sharks don't eat sharks...professional courtesy.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:36   #186
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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These are commonly called a "boat bag" (or some derivation thereof) ...
Boat Bag ➥ ?Welcome to BoatSaver Boat Bags?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:11   #187
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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I saw one on Sailing Anarchy recently (from Oz, of course) that uses a system that sort of vacuum-bags the hull, so that little or no water is in contact with it while the boat is in the bag.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:30   #188
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post

If everybody would put the money and effort into further development of the boat scrubbing robot instead of these political tainted research projects, we could have done away with antifouling completely by now. Even the environment based groups are reliant on pollution for their existance. Think.

cheers,
Nick.
Sooo! What we need is underwater car washes for boats, Ah!
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:57   #189
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Maybe an all bronze Rhoomba?
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Old 12-01-2012, 13:06   #190
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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I am refering to all types of pollution and not just copper.

For regulatory agencies and legislators, individual citizens do make easier targets than other government agencies. It's sort of why sharks don't eat sharks...professional courtesy.
Although the ocean covers two-thirds of the surface of the Earth, it is surprisingly vulnerable to human influences such as overfishing, pollution from run-off, and dumping of waste from human activity. This kind of pollution can have serious economic and health impacts by killing marine life and damaging habitats and ecosystems. Toxins from pesticides, fertilizers, and other chemicals used on farms contaminate nearby rivers that flow into the ocean, which can cause extensive loss of marine life in bays and estuaries leading to the creation of dead zones. The dumping of industrial, nuclear and other waste into oceans was legal until the early 1970's when it became regulated; however, dumping still occurs illegally everywhere.

So lets pick on the recreational boats first and make them pay. It's like blaming the white's of today for slavery 150 years ago, even though themselves had slaves too before the whites came along.


NOAA's National Ocean Service Education: Nonpoint Source Pollution

Marine pollution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Toxic Pollution

SeaWeb - Ocean Briefing Book

Pollution: Ocean Trash and Toxic Runoff Endanger Sea Life! | WorldWideWhale.com

ECO-PROS Human Impact on Oceans

StewardshipEducation

And the list goes on & on.............................
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Old 12-01-2012, 13:34   #191
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

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I saw one on Sailing Anarchy recently (from Oz, of course) that uses a system that sort of vacuum-bags the hull, so that little or no water is in contact with it while the boat is in the bag.
Found it:

Boat Lifts - Seapen Drive On Boat Lift Dock, Airdocks & Floating Dry Dock for All Sized Boats
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Old 12-01-2012, 13:35   #192
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

You guys should stop feeling like such victims in all this. It's not like they aren't going after big industry as well, they are. It just takes longer because they have more influence and a lot more to lose. The NMTA chose to do this for all the right reasons, and we (that is NMTA members) are the most affected by it.
Also we already have boat washes, fstbttms runs one.
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:49   #193
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Prop 65 passed in Cali-for-nia and as a result lawyers sent out teams of investigators to see that every piece of moulded plastic had a warning sticker on them. A well known boat tableware company had to pay 2 mill. to an ad hoc "Enviromental group" of lawyers. Many small businesses were forced into bankrupsy.

If/when the "copper" law passes in Cali look for them to be poking at your bottom ...so to speak.

Meanwhile, back at home... We used a non copper paint this year (Pacifica Plus) and it appears to be doing well. A bit of alge on the water line on the sunny side in the Chesapeake but no barnies. More on that as we see what happens after 6 months more in the Bahamas.
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:54   #194
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

I'm pretty sure the world didn't come to an end when tributyl tin paints were banned in the U.S, so I'm not quite sure why all the hubbub about the ban in Washington and the failed ban (now merely a potential restriction on copper content in anti fouling paint) in California. I guarantee the paint manufacturers will not go out of business if, and when, copper is ever banned nationwide.
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Old 12-01-2012, 16:16   #195
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Re: Washington State Copper Paint Law

Very similar to what we use to do in San Diego/Misson Bay, for powerboats, back in the early 80's, but filling the bag with fresh water.

Looks like a very expensive set up, which would only be available for the home boys, not cruisers. That netting inside the bag must cost a pretty shinny penny, especially for a sailboat.

But hey! If you got the $$$$$$$ goforit.

The resistance it not to the anti-copper! It's to the politicians telling us what to do w/o first coming up with replacement technology. If they want to gain favor, push the producers to come up with an alternative letting them know copper based products will be banned within a short time. Then see what happens! Leave u$ little weak guy$ alone!!!!! This is what starts revolutions.
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