Varnish without sanding between coats

[Lowcountry]

I used Epifanes on my Mason 44, and I used a red scrubby to scuff the finish before wiping clean with denatured alcohol and applying a maintenance coat once every 3 months or so.

[CaptRory]

NCboatrx I stand corrected. It has been years since I used it, and it required it at the time. It was a long drawn out process with a day between each coat to cure enough for sanding, I thought I would never get done. Two years in the Fla sun and I had to take it all off. Went back with Awlgrip and have not been disappointed. It was scary at first not sanding, fearing the next coat won't adhere, but after that experience I will never use a product that requires sanding again.

[MangoCats]

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

I used Epifanes on my Mason 44, and I used a red scrubby to scuff the finish before wiping clean with denatured alcohol and applying a maintenance coat once every 3 months or so.

When you do these maintenance coats, are they straight Epifanes, or thinned?

I bought a boat with a fairly fresh Epifanes job over teak & mahogany in December - want to get the fibreglass deck in order first, but also don't want to ignore the nice job the PO did on the wood.

[roland stockham]

Yep Tillsbury hits the critical point. If varnishing new wood, including re-varnishing where there are bare patches, you need to start with a thinned coat or two then sand. This is because once you wet wood with anything it lifts the grain. After that you can continue to build up coats. If you don't sand you need less coats as sanding reduces the varnish thickness. You do however get a flatter finish the more you sand so it all depends on whether you are looking for a concours finish or protecting the wood. Things to watch for. If you don't sand there can be problems with adheasion between layers, if you do the old trick of applying the next coat before the last one id fully dry you and finish up with very soft varnish due to trapping solvents.

The best and most durable finsh I ever managed was done with multiple coats sprayed with 50/50 varnish and thinners, sanded every 5th coat but also done in warm weather under roof. In my experience making sure varnish fully dries and doesn't trap solvents is the critical but. Once varnesh 'skins' the solvents underneath tend not to be able to escape and the varnish stays soft and has a short life. To me this is way more important than finish.
For brushing I will add up to 10% thinners depending on temp and product to ensure good flow and a fairly thin coat. Once dry I then rub over this a scouring pad to smooth and give a key for the next coat, using the scouring pad does the job but removes less varnish than sanding.

[billgewater]

40 years in the tropics and here is what I have observed.
1. No varnish of any brand survives long outside. Ultimately the UV that passes though the varnish distorts the wood surface underneath and micro splitting allows moisture ingress, when the varnish starts to badly crack or lift. Most boats that arrive with external varnish and stay, eventually seek alternatives such as white paint or oil finishes. I watched visitors try every variation possible for a many years before they finally gave up.
I am currently in Cairns with a gentler climate than Darwin and we are watching a nearby varnished motor boat undergo rapid deterioration. The boat was originally from down south (Sydney or Melbourne). (Darwin is about 12.5 degrees South, Cairns about 16.5 degrees S)

Varnished surfaces exposed to the tropical sun also tend to get hotter than white surfaces which probably exacerbates the situation.
It is all a pity because virtually any timber's appearance is enhanced with varnishes. It gives a "life" to the timber. Some varnished timbers such as mahogany have an interesting property such that the grain pattern changes depending of the viewing angle.

2. Internal varnishes generally do last. I have many internal varnished surfaces that have not been revarnished since 1978. The limitation is that oil based varnishes (which I originally used) tend to have issues where constant sweaty body (another tropical issue) contact occurs. Some varnishes are susceptible to mildew damage as well if a boat is not well ventilated.

I have considerable internal varnish on my yacht an have found that following the makers instructions works well. The last coat has always gone on to a fine sanded surface and then only after considerable repeated vacuuming to ensure there is no dust.

Another issue with varnish (at least for me) has been that if any surface is to be revarnished then all the old varnish must be completely removed - right down to the clean timber. If not, then I have different shades where the old varnish remained. This may be due to the use of different products - I am not sure.

[Alan j]

Le Tonkinois, a Vietnamese varnish available from Amrerican Rope and Tar and Hamilton Marine. After the second coat don’t need to sand. I have been using it for about five years now and am very happy with it. I often do a lite sanding anyway for many things because otherwise it is hard to see “holidays”. The varnish consists of tung oil and other proprietary oils and no solvents so is good for inside because no fumes.

[Capt MikeC]

Originally Posted by CaptRory

NCboatrx I stand corrected. It has been years since I used it, and it required it at the time. It was a long drawn out process with a day between each coat to cure enough for sanding, I thought I would never get done. Two years in the Fla sun and I had to take it all off. Went back with Awlgrip and have not been disappointed. It was scary at first not sanding, fearing the next coat won't adhere, but after that experience I will never use a product that requires sanding again.

Nope CaptRory you are not wrong, but what you described is the Epifanes Clear Varnish - High Gloss, its what I use. One coat per day with sanding in between.
See this page:

https://www.epifanes.com/page/clear-finishes

This is allot of work, I'll have to try Wood Finish Gloss, its description sounds very good.

[keepondancin]

Epifanes Wood Finish seems to be softer than Epifanes Gloss Varnish. I have tried all different variations of application with Epifanes. Built up film thickness with Wood Finish, then top coated with gloss Varnish, hot coated Gloss Varnish to allo me two coats in a day, with perfect dry warm weather conditions, and even did it by the book; thinned first coat, reducing the thinner in each coat, then only thinning to get the best viscosity for good flowing properties. By the book gave me the best finish, and the best longevity, using Epifanes Gloss Varnish, not wood finish.

[stnick]

If you use Cetol natural no inbetween coats, or LE TONKINOIS which is very pure old fashioned varnish. The real deal the way varnish was made 200 years ago. If your in Florida you need a new coat every year because Mother Sun and her UV after year 3 will pop the varnish
The thin to start is a ver valid method. I use SNAPPY TEAK NU on raw teak to remove surface oil so the varnish can seep in and hold.

[sanibel sailor]

I wrote an article for Good Old Boat magazine a year or two ago. How to do it easy, forget perfect. First step- MAKE SUNCOVERS. Several coats at first. If covered, I do a couple of coats every 2nd or third year. Some stuff like cabin eyebrow strip cannot be covered. Here in S Florida, I need to put on another couple of coats every 6 months on exposed wood. Sand with 180 or 220 before first coat, second coat next day no sanding. It looks spectacular from 10 feet, flaws noticeable from 2 feet- I can live with it.

[Lowcountry]

Originally Posted by MangoCats

When you do these maintenance coats, are they straight Epifanes, or thinned?

I bought a boat with a fairly fresh Epifanes job over teak & mahogany in December - want to get the fibreglass deck in order first, but also don't want to ignore the nice job the PO did on the wood.

I always diluted the Epifanes with about 10% of lacquer thinner by volume, but different strokes for different folks.

[FlightPlan]

I agree with Lowcountry on thinning. Anytime I have tried to use Epifanes un-thinned, it has sagged. It's counter intuitive I know, but thinning allows the varnish to dry quicker. I sand between coats and wipe down with denatured alchol. Acetone and varnish are not a good mix, it will soften the varnish.

[PiAn]

I own a boat in which all varnishes were redone without sanding. Il all comes now like the skin of an english who would have had a rest on a meditterranean beach in summer...
In France the term used to allow to varnish the second layer without sanding the first is "in love". If the previous layer is still "in love", then you can cover with a new layer without sanding... Love never lasts...