USCG Documented Vessel vs State Registration

[sail sfbay]

California does require the boat to be registered by the sate if it is USCG documented. That has been the case for 3 boats I owned. in California.

[garychurch]

Zengirls's quote of Gregory Singer's explanation of state registration versus USCG documentation is right on target.

Boats in the US are subject to state laws that are by and large unique and entail:

1. Sales Tax
2. Registration and Use Tax (Done be the states if required)
3. Annual Property Tax (Generally done by Counties or Cities or both).

Each state is different in term of fees and requirements so you need to check official websites or call for correct and detailed information.

Best check with "official" sources for information.

I would add that one can be smart about have much one pays. It is the location of the boat, not where you live that determines requirements.

For example, some states like NC have no registration requirements or registration fees for documented vessels OR vessels that spend less than 90 consecutive days within NC waters or are already registered in another state.

There are also locations, such as some counties in Virginia along the Potomac River and Chesapeake Bay that assess NO annual property taxes on boats.

Careful investigations can legally potentially save thousands in fees.

[waterman46]

CA does not require a USCG documented vessel to be regisfered with DMV, BUT

You will have a tax liability from the state for the
"purchase" of your boat so they need to know how much you spent to build it or a surveyors market value estimate. But if documented you won't have to pay registration fees and no CA number to display.

After you keep the boat in a marina the county will start taxing you each year for having a "posessory interest" in the water under the boat.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sophieoreo

I'm nearing completion of a plans-built 29' sailing cutter, built in my yard over the past ** years which I will own and sail, the vessel being eventually housed at a local marina. I live in California. It appears that I have two choices with regard to (either) 'documenting' the boat or 'registering' the boat... Here's the verbiage from the California Dept of Motor Vehicles to the question 'Which Vessels Must Be Registered': "Generally, every sail-powered vessel over eight feet long and motor driven vessels not documented by the U.S. Coast Guard... " (italics are mine). This seems to say that if the vessel IS documented by the USCG, then you do not need to register it with the State of California... I'm thinking that if I go the 'registration' route, the State of CA will send me a tax bill based on cost of material used in the boat's construction (a $ figure they ask for on the registration form). On the other hand, if I 'document' the vessel with the USCG, there will be no tax bill (rather just the $133 due to the USCG for the documentation certificate). Lastly, since I've built the boat from plans, there is no 'hull identification number' - can I simply make one up? Any thoughts appreciated.

You don't need to Document your boat but you do need to Register it in the state...the state always wants its money. Not sure where you would get a title issued. I would call both and see what they say...hopefully they agree.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[sail sfbay]

Clarification: California does NOT require the boat to be registered by the sate if it is USCG documented. That has been the case for 3 boats I owned. in California.

[Dsanduril]

The California DMV is quite clear on their website:

A documented vessel is registered and issued a marine certificate by the U.S. Coast Guard. It does not require DMV registration. Please see the previous note.

and the "previous note":

An undocumented vessel is registered by the DMV and does not have a marine certificate issued by the U.S. Coast Guard.

You can document or register your boat in California, your choice, but cannot do both. A registration sticker is not required to be applied or displayed on a documented boat in California (other states differ).

Documenting a boat doesn't change your tax situation one bit, that's an entirely separate subject. If the boat is purchased in CA it will require one-time payment of use tax, if it is principally docked/used in CA it will require annual payment of personal property tax. Those are regardless of documentation or registration.

For the OP, my experience with homebuilding - the state will try to collect use tax on the value of the boat, however, they will credit any sales tax paid (with evidence) on materials. The debate will be on the value of the vessel. California has some very specific tax language regarding homebuilt projects and their valuation, you can argue that since the vessel is not "professionally" built it has a substantially lower value than the same or comparable vessel that is professionally built. Same clauses apply to building your own house and many other types of projects.

[CarinaPDX]

For vessels doing international voyages, documentation is preferred to state registrations, although either will serve. When I was in the Caribbean the French were refusing to recognize state registrations, at least not until a fine was paid (Guadeloupe). This is rare, but sticking to a familiar document makes things easy. In any event, when it comes time to sell the boat a document will be preferred as a proof of ownership. As for the Builders Certificate there is no problem filing one yourself; you will be scrutinized because this was used to get titles for stolen boats in the past, but it will go through once you satisfy their curiosity.

Many states charge large annual registration fees - I don't know what California charges. In many states registration is needed if the state is considered the "primary use" state, even with documentation. If you register in the state you will be paying those fees at every renewal; with a document once you leave the state you don't have to register there. Once I left the US I let my Oregon registration lapse, until I returned and renewed it 15 years later - no problem for a documented vessel. Unfortunately the USCG now charges $75/year for renewals so the advantage is less.

Greg

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by sophieoreo

I'm nearing completion of a plans-built 29' sailing cutter, built in my yard over the past ** years which I will own and sail, the vessel being eventually housed at a local marina. I live in California. It appears that I have two choices with regard to (either) 'documenting' the boat or 'registering' the boat... Here's the verbiage from the California Dept of Motor Vehicles to the question 'Which Vessels Must Be Registered': "Generally, every sail-powered vessel over eight feet long and motor driven vessels not documented by the U.S. Coast Guard... " (italics are mine). This seems to say that if the vessel IS documented by the USCG, then you do not need to register it with the State of California... I'm thinking that if I go the 'registration' route, the State of CA will send me a tax bill based on cost of material used in the boat's construction (a $ figure they ask for on the registration form). On the other hand, if I 'document' the vessel with the USCG, there will be no tax bill (rather just the $133 due to the USCG for the documentation certificate). Lastly, since I've built the boat from plans, there is no 'hull identification number' - can I simply make one up? Any thoughts appreciated.

Do you really think California would forego any opportunity to tax you? Hahahahahahahaha! You will likely pay some tax and in most states you also pay an annual water use fee. The sticker in Michigan is based on length and covers three years. I am not sure you qualify under the documentation requirements due to small size. Documentation is useful, perhaps necessary some places if you enter another country. It is your title proving ownership.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Unfortunately the USCG now charges $75/year for renewals so the advantage is less.

I just received my annual documentation renewal form and the cost is still $26. I suspect you may have fallen prey to one of the very common "renewal service" scams.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

I just received my annual documentation renewal form and the cost is still $26. I suspect you may have fallen prey to one of the very common "renewal service" scams.

No, I fell prey to bad memory Edit: I think I was remembering the FCC fee. Too many fees! Thanks a lot Ronnie Reagan.

No way in hell do I use those scammers. It is annoying that their SEO puts them ahead of the USCG when searching for documentation renewal. Tricky little bastards...

Greg

[thunderhoof]

I believe that in CA your completed boat is unsecured property subject to CA property tax, whether you document or register the boat. The taxman will eventually find your boat and bill you for past and present taxes. I think they have many avenues to find you, marina slip rental for example. I am not sure if the Feds give CA info on documented boats, but I would not be surprised.
Your boat is on the borderline for documented vessels, 30 ft. I suggest you bite the bullet, go to the DMV and present the information that it is home built. Then, estimate a value and you should have the valuation accepted. Every year you will get a letter with the proposed assessed value which includes depreciation, that you can contest.
...Just a suggestion from a CA resident who is not a tax expert...

[thunderhoof]

I also found this on creating a HIN:

Every recreational boat must have a Hull Identification Number (HIN). Normally these are assigned by the boat manufacturer using a Manufacturers Identification Code assigned by the Coast Guard. However, in the case of a homebuilt boat the HIN is assigned by the state in which the boat is registered. When you go to register the boat, tell them it is a home built boat (or back yard built boat). The may make you sign something attesting to this. Anyway, when they assign the registration they will also assign an HIN. Each state has been given a manufacturers ID Code that identifies the state that assigned the HIN. If you have any questions on this call Rick Gipe at USCG HQ 202-267-0985 or e-mail him at rgipe@comdt.uscg.mil. You can also look it up on their web site at www.uscgboating.org

[dfelsent]

Almost right. Vessels manufactured after November 1st 1972 in the US require an HIN. If your vessel is older you can USCG document without the HIN but often can’t state register. Ask me how I know. [emoji1]

[Maka]

My vessel is USCG Documented.
The State of Oregon still manages to get their annual "Fee" from me, which btw exceeds what the USCG costs me....by a lot.

If I was a live aboard and moved from marina to marina frequently I might be able to avoid those rascals.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Maka

My vessel is USCG Documented.
The State of Oregon still manages to get their annual "Fee" from me, which btw exceeds what the USCG costs me....by a lot.

Lest others here shed tears for you, the Oregon registration fee, due every two years, is $4.50 per foot plus $5 for the fight against invasive species. For a 40' boat that is $4.50 x 40, +$5, for $185 every two years. The Oregon State Marine Board is funded mostly through registration fees and fuel tax (ILO road tax), and not at all through the general fund. Almost half of the budget (about the same percentage as registration fees) goes to assistance to law enforcement (usually the county sheriff's patrols); About a quarter (similar to the fuel tax receipts) goes to subsidize marine facilities. The rest goes to support education, safety, and other grant programs, with less than 10% for administrative costs. Those free state/county launching ramps and parking, and free overnight docks, are paid for by the OSMB. So are the free head pump out stations at fuel docks and some marinas. It is a model agency, and a bargain to boot.

For the record, I have no axe to grind other than I have been active here for decades. I can only sing their praises. I only wish the rest of the Oregon government was nearly as efficient.

Greg